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PROMLink with Data I/O 29B
by James Bright 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

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RE: Bugtrap Help
by Chris Toseland 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

>First up is the chip under test actually faulty? Sorry should have clarified that, yes the chip was faulty changing it bought the Space Invaders back to life. cheers Chris If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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Bugtrap Help
by Chris Toseland 06 Apr '04

06 Apr '04

Hi All, I've aquired a Bugtrap 2074A all boxed with manuals condition unknown and was trying to do a comparison against my HP comparator to ascertain it's condition. My problem is this: The HP identified a faulty o/p on a 74ls20 chip so I dropped the bugtrap on and it says it's fine, or rather I should say no leds came on after I pressed the reset button (some where on before). I'm using the same 'known good' comparison chip and I've buzzed the ribbon cables out and there are no breaks. And I did have the power clips connected :o) I cracked the bugtrap open and there doesn't seem to be anything obviously blown though I note that someones replaced one of the power supply protection diodes in it at some point. So I suppose my quesion is, from the manual it appears that you only need to switch in the VCC and GND signals and not worry about setting I/P and O/P like the HP am I reading this correctly or just being dumb? Cheers Chris If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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RE: RAM Tester UPDATE !!!!
by John Robertson 01 Apr '04

01 Apr '04

Keep an eye out for the Bug Trap Dynamic Ram tester then, it will check those from around 250 ns to 80ns. I use it regularly... John :-#)# >I'd certainly like to see 4116 and 4164 at needd Williams game speed being >able to be tested. > >Joe > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-techtoolslist(a)flippers.com >> [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@flippers.com]On Behalf Of John Robertson >> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 02:56 PM >> To: techtoolslist >> Subject: Re: RAM Tester UPDATE !!!! >> >> >> How is the project going? >> >> Speed of testing seems to be the biggest issue as >> many RAMs will work fine under slow testing but >> when run at their rated speed they then fail. >> >> I've been thinking about this RAM tester for the >> past number of years and was wondering which RAM >> people would like to be able to test. >> >> For example, my needs are to be able to test >> 2114, and 5101 ram as I have dynamic testers for >> the others and a couple of static ram testers for >> later RAM. >> >> Soooo I'm thinking more in line of a simple free >> standing circuit board that one can plug these >> into and with an adjustable calibrated speed >> control, much like the StarTek Dynamic Ram tester >> from the early 90's. The schematic for this is on >> the web site... >> >> One other project involves making a socket that I >> can drop into one of my old dynamic RAM testers >> (Bug Trap's late 70's unit) and see if I can fool >> it into testing the 4-bit static RAMs. >> >> John :-#)# >> >> At 9:35 AM -0300 2/12/04, pc2jamma wrote: >> >Gentleman ! >> > >> > >> >I'm facing a problem building the software that >> >makes the pattern test. I only have Windows XP >> >machines, and the way that this OS works on >> >Parallel port is pretty different than the >> >Windows 9x version. (Thanks to Microsoft !!!) >> > >> >On the Christmas holidays, my wife forced me to >> >paint my house... Ohhh yes... you see right... >> >And as I'm very busy on my job, I just have >> >holidays to work on my hobbies. >> > >> >Is Carnaval in Brazil next week, and I'll try to >> >make this software during theses days - Yes >> >man... I'll trade the Carnaval by build one test >> >Pattern Software for you guys ;) >> > >> >ANY HELP AND COMMENTS IS APPRECIATED !!! >> > >> >I'll keep you guys up to speed. >> > >> > >> >Take care, >> > >> >José Luiz Martins >> > >> > >> >If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can >> send mail to: >> ><Majordomo(a)flippers.com> >> >with the following command in the body of your email message: >> >(un)subscribe techtoolslist >> >or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: >> >(un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com >> >> >> -- >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, >> Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 >> (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >> If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: >> <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> >> with the following command in the body of your email message: >> (un)subscribe techtoolslist >> or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: >> (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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RAM Tester UPDATE !!!!
by pc2jamma 01 Apr '04

01 Apr '04

Gentleman ! I'm facing a problem building the software that makes the pattern test. I only have Windows XP machines, and the way that this OS works on Parallel port is pretty different than the Windows 9x version. (Thanks to Microsoft !!!) On the Christmas holidays, my wife forced me to paint my house... Ohhh yes... you see right... And as I'm very busy on my job, I just have holidays to work on my hobbies. Is Carnaval in Brazil next week, and I'll try to make this software during theses days - Yes man... I'll trade the Carnaval by build one test Pattern Software for you guys ;) ANY HELP AND COMMENTS IS APPRECIATED !!! I'll keep you guys up to speed. Take care, José Luiz Martins If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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RE: HP 10529A Logic comparator
by mike_ranger＠dofasco.ca 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Of course... There is also the obvious.... Not to be used on any tri-stated devices! To me, this is any chip outputing on to a bus which has more than one chip's output tied to it. What happens is you chip goes to output disabled, then another chip plays with the lines, and the comparator indicates a false. I with the others, in that I trust the good reading and suspect a false as being incorrect. Many times, the false is due to loading or threshold voltages. IE the OE line reads fine on a probe, and the chip under test fails, the chip in the machine passes, but a scope shows a swing tom 0 to +3.3 volts, or something like that. The chip in the comparator works, caus it has no outputs to drive, but the chip on the board shows differently. In this case you have to examine the sources for the inputs, and the sinks for the outputs. Mike If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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RE: HP 10529A Logic comparator
by Joe 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

I have had issues with the HP clip sometimes not seating right on the chip and giving false results. Also, sometimes the chip legs can be dirty and not make a good connection.. both things to check.. Try wiggling the clip a bit on the chip and see it it changes (I do this when on) or try squeezing the clip tighter. But, as was saif before, this will not tell you if that chip is bad - only that something connected to that pin is bad.. (most likely that chip.....) Hope that helps. JB -----Original Message----- From: owner-techtoolslist(a)flippers.com [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Marc Alexander Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:12 PM To: Martin White; techtoolslist(a)flippers.com Subject: Re: HP 10529A Logic comparator I have found that often the best way to use a logic comparator is the other way around than you may expect- Allow it to show you which chips are good! I found it to be faster and more useful to rely more on the positive results it gives. You will then be left with a short list of IC's that may either be faulty, or giving false faulty results, and you can work on those alone. I have an oscilloscope on my bench so I can back up a faulty reading with the CRO probe straight away. As I test IC's in a section I use a paint marker pen or liquid paper pen to place a dot on the pin 1 corner to indicate I tested it and it is ok. (handy if you come back a week later :) ) First thing I do with a faulty reading is look at the pin on the good IC and the same pin on the test IC with the CRO, and see if they is either too fast or radically different. Apart from voltage offset differences and such caused by the comparator circuitry, you can at least see if there is a similar waveform on the IC pins that test faulty. Narrow spikes and really fast data that give false results can be seen easily. Then depending on the IC type I will either decide it looks ok with a CRO inspection using a pinout/block diagram of the IC, or pull it to test or replace. (eg fast 74161's in video sections, and some other IC's in video output especially run too quick for the comparator) Anyway hope this helps, Best regards, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin White" <martin(a)guddler.co.uk> To: <techtoolslist(a)flippers.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: Re: HP 10529A Logic comparator > Yup comparing like for like. > > One of the guys forwarded a link to me about the bug trap comparator, and that > suggests the 157 should compare okay. At the end of the day i'm not overly > fussed about the fact the comparator showed two of the outputs as being bad. > > They both drive the WE lines of two ram ICs each, so i assume they must be > good or the graphics would be totally up the creek? Ie, if the WE wasn't > letting the ram be written to at the correct times then i guess i'd be seeing > a fair bit more of a problem than just the wrong objects being displayed on > some levels. > > Was only really asking as this pcb is starting to drive me nutty! > > My Fluke doesn't seem to want to know with the boardset, so that's out (ie, i > can't get it to run UUT). I've looked all over for stuck bits and can't see > any. Then for good measure this evening i've just checked the junction drop > of every pin of every IC on the board. Nothing. > > Starting to scratch my head a little now! All interconnects are also good. > > Admittedly, the one thing that i haven't done which i'd like to is shotgun the > object ram's socket's. Sadly they're the size in between eprom size and ttl > size and i don't have any. I guess i could split some normal ones in two, but > that's for tomorrow. Had enough for tonight :O) > > Not sure if i already said or not as i got confused about reply destinations > earlier(!), but it's the video generator pcb of an MCRII set. Tron in fact. > > Martin. > > On Monday 29 Mar 2004 22:49, Phillip Eaton wrote: > > One more thing to add... you are comparing like with like? > > > > I don't know from experience, but if you compared an 74LS (Low Power > > Schottkey?) with a 74HC (High Speed ???) then you would probably get output > > comparison glitches caused by the speed differences. > > > > I don't know if this would tigger an output error flash, though. > > > > Welcome to analogue digital electronics :-) > > > > Phil. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-techtoolslist(a)flippers.com > > > [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@flippers.com]On Behalf Of Martin White > > > Sent: 29 March 2004 20:19 > > > To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com > > > Subject: HP 10529A Logic comparator > > > > > > > > > Has anyone ever made a specific list of 74 series chips that this cannot > > > successfully diagnose? > > > > > > Or does it depend on the circuit in which they're placed (what the inputs > > > / outputs are tied to)? > > > > > > I seem to remember being told once that it can't always successfully > > > diagnose certain logic chips. I don't have enough field experience to > > > know when i use it if the results I'm getting indicate a faulty IC or > > > just an IC it can't reliably diagnose. In fact, so far i don't think it's > > > been of any use to me whatsoever. > > > > > > Obviously i'm ignoring those with more than 16 pins! > > > > > > More specifically, i was looking at some 74LS157's the other day that > > > are part > > > of a 2 to 1 multiplexer prior to some ram ICs. The one that had the WE > > > lines as two of the outputs was showing a fault on both of them, but > > > replacing it made no difference, i thus assumed the comparator was giving > > > a false positive (or negative!). > > > > > > Was this right, or should i really continue to suspect that IC? It's > > > definately in the part of the schematics where my problem lies. > > > > > > Please excuse if it's a bit of a dumb question to some, but i'm merely > > > trying to familiarise myself better with some of the tools that i've > > > picked up over the course of the last few years. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Martin. > > > > > > If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail > > > to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> > > > with the following command in the body of your email message: > > > (un)subscribe techtoolslist > > > or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: > > > (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com > > > > If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: > > <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> > > with the following command in the body of your email message: > > (un)subscribe techtoolslist > > or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: > > (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com > If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: > <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> > with the following command in the body of your email message: > (un)subscribe techtoolslist > or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: > (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com > If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/2004 If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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HP 10529A Logic comparator
by Martin White 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Has anyone ever made a specific list of 74 series chips that this cannot successfully diagnose? Or does it depend on the circuit in which they're placed (what the inputs / outputs are tied to)? I seem to remember being told once that it can't always successfully diagnose certain logic chips. I don't have enough field experience to know when i use it if the results I'm getting indicate a faulty IC or just an IC it can't reliably diagnose. In fact, so far i don't think it's been of any use to me whatsoever. Obviously i'm ignoring those with more than 16 pins! More specifically, i was looking at some 74LS157's the other day that are part of a 2 to 1 multiplexer prior to some ram ICs. The one that had the WE lines as two of the outputs was showing a fault on both of them, but replacing it made no difference, i thus assumed the comparator was giving a false positive (or negative!). Was this right, or should i really continue to suspect that IC? It's definately in the part of the schematics where my problem lies. Please excuse if it's a bit of a dumb question to some, but i'm merely trying to familiarise myself better with some of the tools that i've picked up over the course of the last few years. Thanks, Martin. If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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Wildwood 8080 processor adaptor module?
by Joe 24 Mar '04

24 Mar '04

I recently bought a Fluke 9010 test pod for the 8080 CPU. Along with it, I got a model 210-9080 8080 Processor Adaptor Module made by Wildwood of Phoenix Arizone. This is a pod similar to the Fluke pods. It has a wide ribbon cable coming out of it that terminates in a 40 pin DIP plug presumably to plug into a CPU socket. On the box is a ZIP socket (for the CPU?). It also has a double row of 40 pins that appear to be test points. On the other end of the box is a 20 pin ribbon cable with a ribbon cable socket on the end of it. Does anyone know what this is for or anything about Wildwood? Joe If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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PAT9000 bits on ebay
by Kurt Mahan 23 Mar '04

23 Mar '04

In case anyone is interested there are some PAT9000 bits and pieces up on ebay. They aren't mine -- I just saw 'em listed. Kurt If you ever want to (un)subscribe yourself with TTL, you can send mail to: <Majordomo(a)flippers.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: (un)subscribe techtoolslist or from another email account, besides xxx(a)yyy.com: (un)subscribe techtoolslist xxx(a)yyy.com

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