June 2002 - TechToolsList - listserv.classicarcade.com

Re: Death of Spies.com/arcade
by Kev 26 Jun '02

26 Jun '02

It isn't all Al's work. It was a collaboration. If I can dig up the stuff I contributed I'll be happy to send it out to whomever. The whole reason I donated it to spies was to participate & share in making this information freely available. (and I only have a meager 1 MB of space which I use for my webpage). I only donated a very few pinouts & a couple of manuals. Al forwarded the flyer scans elsewhere. I did donate the Bugtrap (Logic comparator) PDFs for the TTL & CMOS versions if anyone want to host those. Thanks, Kev mowerman(a)erols.com >Seems to me that if one person was to download the archive and then offer >copies of the CD - at cost - (with Al's permission, after all they are HIS >work) to collectors that might make it at least a resource that can be shared. > >Sad though, > >John :-#(# > >At 06:57 PM 25/06/2002 -0400, Corey Stup wrote: > > >>Looks like Al took the site down. >> >>Damon has a mirror, at www.stormaster.com/Spies/arcade >

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fluke z80 pod
by Andy Welburn 25 Jun '02

25 Jun '02

i've had enough of this rat bastard thing does anybody have a reliable working z80 fluke pod that they would consider selling? i have a faulty z80 pod that i'm eager to pass on at a trade-in price, i can't fix the bloody thing and now, the downtime is killing me... can anyone help? email me off-list with asking prices / trade-in prices etc.. thanks in advance.. andy

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scratch that
by Andy Welburn 25 Jun '02

25 Jun '02

well.. soon as i posted, i got an offer from elsewhere.. so i might be sorted for the time being :) sorry for wasting bandwidth ;) Andy

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9100 on eBay...clone?
by John Robertson 25 Jun '02

25 Jun '02

I've seen that picture before, but not with this seller... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1744127814 Does anyone recall this? Perhaps he bought it and gave up? Only asking $910US...doesn't even say if it works... John :-#)#

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If you could wish for anything....
by Rodger Boots 24 Jun '02

24 Jun '02

I'm trying to design too much stuff and resulting in getting nothing done. So let's see what interest there is in any of this stuff. Test monitor. A small (12" or under) black and white vector monitor that couldn't be damaged by bad boards. I have a small number of vector yokes that would fit a 20 mm neck b&w tube. A bullet proof deflection board is easy enough for a small monitor. I also have 300+ Sony flybacks laying around that could power a small tube. I even have some 5" tubes, but that may be too small. Any ideas if this is a worthwhile project to pursue and what size tube would be ideal. Replacement for Keltron. Kind of goes back to the 300+ Sony flybacks above. Pursue it or drop it? Replacement for 19 KV vector high voltage power supplies. Supposedly everyone is about to announce this one. Mine is based on the flyback used in the WG K7000. Turns out there is a company that makes flybacks (HR Diemen) that makes a replacement for the K7000 flyback. For all I know they might even be the OEM for them. MCM Electronics sells the HR part at a decent price. The advantages to using this particular part, as I see it, are 1) availability, 2) price, 3) already know it is likely to work with our tubes, 4) has a built-in HV bleeder to discharge the CRT, 5) can be it's own isolation transformer if run off the power line. Should I keep running with this or let others come out with competing products and hope they work? Entire vector monitor. I presently have possible CRT/yoke combinations tracked down for 19", 25", 27", and 33". I think I also have an indestructible deflection board design. Cut bait or run? What's the most likely to be useful sizes? Replacement G08 deflection board. Same indestructible design I mentioned above. Do it or chew it? Replacement for Fluke 9010A that interfaces a Fluke pod to a computer. Any need for it? Universal pod for Fluke 9010A. One pod with interchangeable cartridges to handle just about any processor used in arcade games, including a few that Fluke never supported. Would probably kill the market for Fluke pods (great...after I just bought a bunch of them...). Any interest? Any interest in anyone helping to build any of this? Should I just go back to bed? I obviously can't do all of these simultaneously, I have neither that kind of time or resources to do it. But I'd like to get a feel for what is most likely to be useful. What is most likely to sell. (What is most likely to pay for doing the rest of it).

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Re: Fluke and space invaders input ports
by Andy Welburn 24 Jun '02

24 Jun '02

> Well how do you do it? i thought i'd answer on-list :) hit READ, select the ADDR OPTION to I/O then read address 1 repeat for addresses 2 and 3 for the other input ports.. I didn't check them out fully, however, address 1 is for player 1 controls and coin/start for sure. Port 2 has the tilt switch. I didn't bother with the rest as the main things i was looking for were stuck switches, of which there are none on this troublesome pcb :( the read result has to broken into its 8 bits, if you read the address, then hold the appropriate button and re-read, the result will change... its pure sorcery i tells ya!! > Thanks, > Kev Andy

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Re: If you could wish for anything....
by Kev 24 Jun '02

24 Jun '02

> >I'm trying to design too much stuff and resulting in getting nothing >done. So let's see what interest there is in any of this stuff. > >Test monitor. A small (12" or under) black and white vector monitor >that couldn't be damaged by bad boards. I have a small number of vector >yokes that would fit a 20 mm neck b&w tube. A bullet proof deflection >board is easy enough for a small monitor. I also have 300+ Sony >flybacks laying around that could power a small tube. I even have some >5" tubes, but that may be too small. Any ideas if this is a worthwhile >project to pursue and what size tube would be ideal. > Isn't this called an Oscilloscope? ;-) >Replacement for Keltron. Kind of goes back to the 300+ Sony flybacks >above. Pursue it or drop it? > I'd rather see the Cinematronics to WG/Electrohome monitor adapter. > Replacement for 19 KV vector high voltage power supplies. Supposedly >everyone is about to announce this one. Mine is based on the flyback >used in the WG K7000. Turns out there is a company that makes flybacks >(HR Diemen) that makes a replacement for the K7000 flyback. For all I >know they might even be the OEM for them. MCM Electronics sells the HR >part at a decent price. The advantages to using this particular part, >as I see it, are 1) availability, 2) price, 3) already know it is likely >to work with our tubes, 4) has a built-in HV bleeder to discharge the >CRT, 5) can be it's own isolation transformer if run off the power >line. Should I keep running with this or let others come out with >competing products and hope they work? > Don't know but I would be worried about Supply & demand (forces quality up & price down....) >Entire vector monitor. I presently have possible CRT/yoke combinations >tracked down for 19", 25", 27", and 33". I think I also have an >indestructible deflection board design. Cut bait or run? What's the >most likely to be useful sizes? > 25" replacements for Sitdown Star wars is a small market. I doubt too many people would be hacking 25"+ vector cabinets ( but if you could create an all in one adapter for any XY game input so people could make a multi-vector cabinet).... >Replacement G08 deflection board. Same indestructible design I >mentioned above. Do it or chew it? > This would be cool! BUT again I like the idea of mixing Atari, Cinematronics & Sega on the same monitor.... >Replacement for Fluke 9010A that interfaces a Fluke pod to a computer. >Any need for it? > John Robertson is all for this. Would you write a completely new front end for it or emulate the 9010 processor so that you can run existing scripts? This is limited by the number of usable pods available. >Universal pod for Fluke 9010A. One pod with interchangeable cartridges >to handle just about any processor used in arcade games, including a few >that Fluke never supported. Would probably kill the market for Fluke >pods (great...after I just bought a bunch of them...). Any interest? > This would be awesome.! 30410 processor etc. My only concern is how big a market is there for this? Would Fluke repair units become as common as EPROM burners? >Any interest in anyone helping to build any of this? > I'll beta test the Fluke stuff :-0 , help if I can. Kev

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Duplicate messages from the list....
by John Robertson 24 Jun '02

24 Jun '02

It appears that the list is still a bit broken, in that when you REPLY to the list you might also be replying to the originator of the message as well, thus he gets two copies of the message. Please check the "To:" field and clear out anything but the techtoolslist address... Thanks! I'm trying to get this fixed but the host is taking a bit of time upgrading the list software. John :-#)#

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Re: Copying ROMS ?
by Mike Davis 22 Jun '02

22 Jun '02

Yes, I said I did a hard reset. Control @ and entered the new time,etc and pressed ENTER and verified that all my programs were gone. But, even with no BASIC ROMs in the HX-20, it still gives me the BASIC and Monitor options AND I can select either one. I even entered a BASIC program and executed it (all without the BASIC ROMs installed) Wierd! > When you did the reset, did you do ALL of the reset? I take it you > pressed the reset button, but then to reinitialize the memory you have > to press "control @" while in the menu. You then enter time and date > and all RAM gets wiped and ROM reloaded. > > > Mike Davis wrote: > > > > Nope! No manufacturers mark. Only the numbers given beow and a date > > code like A27 119. > > > > But like I said, I have two HX-20. One has the BASIC ROMs, the > > other has 27C64 EPROMs. I just can't read the BASIC ROMs into my > > Data I/O PROM Programmer. Not sure of family/pin code. I have > > tried all of the 8K codes, with no luck. > > > > I also tried swapping them (not sway :-) but there appears to be > > something else at play here that I'm not familar with. When I pull > > all of the BASIC ROMs, the system still runs BASIC (with no ROMs at > > all). Only way I can see this is if there was some code pulled from > > ROM and resident in the HX-20. Epson did this with the PX-8 but > > there is no mention in the manual and I can't force a reload. > > > > I'm asking some HX-20 experts but have not heard back yet. > > > > > Is there a manufacturers mark on these ROMs? Is it possible they > > > are Motorola? Motorola had some ideas about Eprom/Rom > > > compatibility that wasn't shared by Intel and others and > > > Motorolas' design did not catch on. Motorola was (it seems) more > > > aligned with TI in those days (both from Texas?) and were also > > > making 2564's that have a different select pinout than 2764s. Do > > > the 2764 Eproms work in the board that has these mystery ROMs? > > > > > > On another note, I hope it isn't too hot where you are - you > > > mention swaying the ROMs and I'd hate to think you were succumbing > > > to the weather... ;-) Heatstroke? (going back into hiding...) > > > > > > John:-#)# > > > > > > At 08:12 AM 22/06/2002 -0700, Mike Davis wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Like I said below: > > > >EPSON BASIC1R0 M64020AA > > > >EPSON BASIC1R0 M64021AA > > > >EPSON BASIC1R0 M64022AA > > > >EPSON BASIC1R0 M64023AA > > > > > > > >The other writing is simply date code information. > > > > > > > >The thing is, like I have said, I have a 2nd HX-20 that has > > > >27C64s installed. So, I was going to copy the BASIC to 27c64s > > > >and use in the 2nd unit to have a BASIC machine. > > > > > > > >Someone suggested that the masked ROMs might have some sort of > > > >special non-standard select method within the ROMs. But if that > > > >was the case, the 27C64 wouldn't work, unless there was some > > > >difference in the board (No PALs on this board). I'm going to > > > >disassemble it today and see if the 2nd unit has some rewired > > > >ROMs. > > > > > > > >But, I have a 2nd problem that I'm trying to work off of this > > > >board. I pulled the BASIC ROMs from the 1st unit and performed a > > > >hard reset, clearing RAM. Still ran BASIC and the monitor > > > >program that were supposed to be in ROM (ROMs were completely out > > > >of the system). > > > > > > > >I was going to simply sway ROMS and see if they worked in the > > > >other system but for some reason, the systems behave the same, > > > >regardless of which set of ROMs is in either machine. > > > > > > > >I thought perhaps the program is loaded into resident memory but > > > >the manuals don't mention this and I don't know how to force a > > > >reload. I know their other machine, PX-8, behaved this way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there any common numbering on the masked parts that might > > > > > give a clue as to what they REALLY are? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Davis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That was the first thing I tried. It read in all blank. > > > > > > That is the problem that I'm trying to resolve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If 2764s are known to work just read the ROMs as 2764s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Davis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have verified that I can read and write other 27c64s > > > > > > > > and I also tried swapping ROMS however there is another > > > > > > > > small glitch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently the HX-20 runs the programs out of RAM. I > > > > > > > > guess it loads from PROM and runs from RAM. I removed > > > > > > > > all of the BASIC ROMs and performed a hard reset and > > > > > > > > when it comes back, it's still running BASIC, without > > > > > > > > the BASIC ROMs even installed. Wierd! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have looked through the manuals to try and find a way > > > > > > > > to force a reload but no go (so far). I might try > > > > > > > > removing the internal batteries and see what happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The manual also mentions that one can use 27C64s in the > > > > > > > > HX-20. There may also be one other thing that is causing > > > > > > > > the problem. I am trying to read the ROMS using > > > > > > > > family/pin codes for other ROMS. I don't find that part > > > > > > > > number and have tried a number of other 8K ROM fam/pin > > > > > > > > codes and none give me anything but blank loads. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps that is part of the problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Verify that you can read another 2764 (incase you have > > > > > > > > > reader problems). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you swap the 2764 for the Masked ROMs & work > > > > > > > > > without changing jumpers/settings/wiring? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see there are a few HX-20 collectors on the net, > > > > > > > > > they may be more informed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I understand what you are saying. I'm sure > > > > > > > > > > they are Masked ROMS or at least that would make > > > > > > > > > > sense. They are a 4 chip chipset with numbers: > > > > > > > > > > EPSON BASIC1R0 M64020AA to M65023AA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing is however, that in identical machines, > > > > > > > > > > the other EPROMS are 27C64 so the pinout would seem > > > > > > > > > > to have to be the same or the EPROMS would not work > > > > > > > > > > right in the other identical machines, would they? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Re: Copying ROMS ?
by Mike Davis 22 Jun '02

22 Jun '02

Like I said below: EPSON BASIC1R0 M64020AA EPSON BASIC1R0 M64021AA EPSON BASIC1R0 M64022AA EPSON BASIC1R0 M64023AA The other writing is simply date code information. The thing is, like I have said, I have a 2nd HX-20 that has 27C64s installed. So, I was going to copy the BASIC to 27c64s and use in the 2nd unit to have a BASIC machine. Someone suggested that the masked ROMs might have some sort of special non-standard select method within the ROMs. But if that was the case, the 27C64 wouldn't work, unless there was some difference in the board (No PALs on this board). I'm going to disassemble it today and see if the 2nd unit has some rewired ROMs. But, I have a 2nd problem that I'm trying to work off of this board. I pulled the BASIC ROMs from the 1st unit and performed a hard reset, clearing RAM. Still ran BASIC and the monitor program that were supposed to be in ROM (ROMs were completely out of the system). I was going to simply sway ROMS and see if they worked in the other system but for some reason, the systems behave the same, regardless of which set of ROMs is in either machine. I thought perhaps the program is loaded into resident memory but the manuals don't mention this and I don't know how to force a reload. I know their other machine, PX-8, behaved this way. > Is there any common numbering on the masked parts that might give a > clue as to what they REALLY are? > > > Mike Davis wrote: > > > > That was the first thing I tried. It read in all blank. That is > > the problem that I'm trying to resolve. > > > > > If 2764s are known to work just read the ROMs as 2764s. > > > > > > > > > Mike Davis wrote: > > > > > > > > I have verified that I can read and write other 27c64s and I > > > > also tried swapping ROMS however there is another small glitch. > > > > > > > > Apparently the HX-20 runs the programs out of RAM. I guess it > > > > loads from PROM and runs from RAM. I removed all of the BASIC > > > > ROMs and performed a hard reset and when it comes back, it's > > > > still running BASIC, without the BASIC ROMs even installed. > > > > Wierd! > > > > > > > > I have looked through the manuals to try and find a way to force > > > > a reload but no go (so far). I might try removing the internal > > > > batteries and see what happens. > > > > > > > > The manual also mentions that one can use 27C64s in the HX-20. > > > > There may also be one other thing that is causing the problem. > > > > I am trying to read the ROMS using family/pin codes for other > > > > ROMS. I don't find that part number and have tried a number of > > > > other 8K ROM fam/pin codes and none give me anything but blank > > > > loads. > > > > > > > > Perhaps that is part of the problem? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Verify that you can read another 2764 (incase you have reader > > > > > problems). > > > > > > > > > > Can you swap the 2764 for the Masked ROMs & work without > > > > > changing jumpers/settings/wiring? > > > > > > > > > > I see there are a few HX-20 collectors on the net, they may be > > > > > more informed. > > > > > > > > > > Kev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I understand what you are saying. I'm sure they are > > > > > > Masked ROMS or at least that would make sense. They are a 4 > > > > > > chip chipset with numbers: EPSON BASIC1R0 M64020AA to > > > > > > M65023AA. > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing is however, that in identical machines, the other > > > > > > EPROMS are 27C64 so the pinout would seem to have to be the > > > > > > same or the EPROMS would not work right in the other > > > > > > identical machines, would they? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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