January 2000 - TechToolsList - listserv.classicarcade.com

Re: ESR meter construction question
by FBowen＠checkfree.com 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

I was just using the wires from my PCB, not the probes. I haven't tried the resistors recently. I'll check the meter out some more this weekend. PS What are the subscription instructions for this list? Flog me now, for I never end up saving them. Sorry! I couldn't find them on the flippers.com web site. John Robertson <jrr(a)flippers.com> on 01/21/2000 11:17:05 AM Please respond to TechToolsList(a)flippers.com To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com cc: Subject: Re: ESR meter construction question Have you tried using a jumper wire to short out the input jacks? I find the quality of probes varies greatly... Do you get the correct resistance values with the two test resistors? 86R and some other resistor... John :-#)# At 08:44 AM 1/21/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I finally built my ESR meter kit from John and it "works" (it powers up, >displays "EA" and then "- ") but when the measurement leads are tied >together in order to zero them out the value just keeps fluctuating wildly. >The fluctuation is large and happens a few times a second. If I press the >button to zero them out it turns the meter off. I'm doing this with the >ends of the wires off the PCB (the PCB has not been installed in the case >yet) clamped together. Any ideas? John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

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Kit problems-LOPT/FBT
by John Robertson 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

Any of you building the flyback meter kit might find this interesting: Had a student build one on the bench, and after assembly the thing didn't work quite right. The two red LEDs were on, and when the test coils was used, the display only went to the second yellow LED. Parked it in the "Look at later" box for a month and today pulled it out and took another look at. All parts looked and tested good, Diode check showed all diodes happy, no shorts, ICs exchanged with a working unit-OK. Took out scope and turned on the unit. The output of the test signal was WAY too high. The clamping diode wasn't working, YET the @$#%#@$% thing passed the Diode test! The !@$# Diode tests good out of circuit! Sheesh, what sort of parts is DS using these days? Magic? I'm sure we left the smoke in the diode... Oh, well just thought you'd be amused... John :-#)# John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

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What is this?
by mike_ranger＠dofasco.ca 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

Fluke Model 90 µP Microprocessor Board Tester Showed up on e-gay recently. The description talks about in circuit testing, but does not specify the cpu type. Wonder if it is usefull. Any comments? Mike Text of auction reads: The Fluke Model 90 µP Board Tester is a hand-held, easy-to-operate, tester used to diagnose faults in microprocessor-based devices. The tester is a Direct Memory Access (DMA) device emulator that connects to the microprocessor in the UUT (Unit Under Test). The microprocessor does not have to be removed from the circuit. The tester forces the DMA and WAIT lines on the UUT bus, taking control of the bus from the UUT's microprocessor. Power is supplied by either the +5 volt line at the UUT microprocessor or by and (optional[not included]) external power supply. No connection is required to the UUT other than the microprocessor clip. The Fluke 90 performs the following: Bus Test to determine if any bus line is stuck high or low, or shorted to other bus lines. Memory Test to determine if RAM can be written and read and if ROM contains the proper bit pattern. I/O Test to determine if I/O addresses can be written and read. QuickTrace(tm) to identify the signal name of an address, data, or control signal line and allows the type of signal line to be tracked in the UUT. Detect selected events on the UUT bus by setting and enabling Break-Point, Frame-Point, and SYNC/Trigger Interface functions. Loads the UUT memory over the Remote Communications Interface. Dumps the contents of the UUT memory to a remote terminal or computer via the Remote Communications Interface. > -----Original Message----- > From: James Marous [SMTP:JMarous@midmark.com] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 12:53 PM > To: 'TechToolsList(a)flippers.com' > Subject: RE: Signature Analyzers > > On the subject of KK units.... I have a KK ROM tester, no documentation, > it > just has 2 rows of machine pin sockets on the top and inputs for the sig > analysis connections. I always assumed is just calculates sigs on the > ROMs, > but I never really knew, or used it for that matter. Anyone know about > this one? > > I also picked up a Bugtrap DRAM tester on Fleabay for $10, works great. > Does everything down to 4116s... It is configurable for the timing and > everything. Works great for me, as my current eprom burner/chip tester > doesn't handle triple power supply parts. If you get a chance to grab > one, > I would definitely go for it. I think it's the Bugtrap model 8000. > > James > -----Original Message----- > From: Kev [mailto:KKlopp@EROLS.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 3:20 PM > To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com > Subject: Re: Signature Analyzers > > > > > > > For some dumb reason I have several of them, I have the HP 5004 and > 5006, > a > > bug trap sig analyzer and a Kurz Kasch model. All are basically about > the > > same, at least as much as I use them. Honestly, I find I seldom use > > signature analysis. About the only time it really comes in handy is > working > > on vector mathboxes. But it's nice to have it for well documented > projects, > > like the cinematronics boards. > > > > James > > Gosh I thought I was the only "dummy" with 3 sig analyzers in the house. > > I've got the Bugtrap (My personal favorite) > Kurz Kash > and the Cat Box. > > If anyone is interested in the KK box I'll sell it or trade it. I've also > go the KK eprom copier & several modules if anyone has any need for that > (read vintage equipment). > > My use of a SA? > > Well I was fighting enough with Bally pinball boards MPU 17 & 35 that I > went > thru & did some SA. > > I started to do Pac-Man but the buffering circuits complicates SA > implimentation. I have used the SA on Pac-Man to catch funky 74ls161's in > the timing section. This is a rare case where a using an O-scope the way > I > do (probe, see if the signal is full range & looks "normal") would not > have > found the faulty 74ls161, since the outputs were toggling & appeared to > work, they just were not correct. > > I have unsuccefully SA a Battlezone Math box before. > > The SA is an okay tool, it will be more powerful the more people document > & > share Signatures. I'd take an O-scope of a SA any day but the SA is > cheaper > and depending on your focus not a bad tool. > > Kev > mowerman(a)erols.com > http://www.erols.com/mowerman

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Re: ESR meter construction question
by John Robertson 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

Have you tried using a jumper wire to short out the input jacks? I find the quality of probes varies greatly... Do you get the correct resistance values with the two test resistors? 86R and some other resistor... John :-#)# At 08:44 AM 1/21/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I finally built my ESR meter kit from John and it "works" (it powers up, >displays "EA" and then "- ") but when the measurement leads are tied >together in order to zero them out the value just keeps fluctuating wildly. >The fluctuation is large and happens a few times a second. If I press the >button to zero them out it turns the meter off. I'm doing this with the >ends of the wires off the PCB (the PCB has not been installed in the case >yet) clamped together. Any ideas? John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

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Re: ESR meter construction question
by FBowen＠checkfree.com 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

I actually carefully looked at the PCB lit from behind before installing anything (WOW! I actually followed the instructions! :-) and didn't notice any problems. I'll check it again and look for any solder shorts. I found it impossible to construct w/o referring to all three images (picture!!!, schematic, and layout with part numbers) so I worry that something was installed incorrectly. Thanks! Kurt Mahan <kmahan(a)xmission.com> on 01/21/2000 09:52:46 AM Please respond to TechToolsList(a)flippers.com To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com cc: Subject: Re: ESR meter construction question When I built mine I had a few problems too. Careful examination of the pcb showed that when they tinned it they used a little too much. So in areas where I hadn't installed anything there were a few minute shorts between the traces. You might want to check for that. My problems were display problems -- and I checked/double checked/got the scope out/etc. Kurt > I finally built my ESR meter kit from John and it "works" (it powers up, > displays "EA" and then "- ") but when the measurement leads are tied > together in order to zero them out the value just keeps fluctuating wildly. > The fluctuation is large and happens a few times a second. If I press the > button to zero them out it turns the meter off. I'm doing this with the > ends of the wires off the PCB (the PCB has not been installed in the case > yet) clamped together. Any ideas?

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ESR meter construction question
by FBowen＠checkfree.com 21 Jan '00

21 Jan '00

I finally built my ESR meter kit from John and it "works" (it powers up, displays "EA" and then "- ") but when the measurement leads are tied together in order to zero them out the value just keeps fluctuating wildly. The fluctuation is large and happens a few times a second. If I press the button to zero them out it turns the meter off. I'm doing this with the ends of the wires off the PCB (the PCB has not been installed in the case yet) clamped together. Any ideas?

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RE: What is this?
by mike_ranger＠dofasco.ca 20 Jan '00

20 Jan '00

> Damn! I order one for $89 (Tom Gomer did too) the other week & the guy > has > more. > > I bought one to give it a try (as Pac Man is my main focus) instead of > forking out $500 for a 9010A & Z80 pod. > > I'm still waiting on my & plan of producing a report of it's abilities as > soon as I can. > [Ranger Mike] Looking forward to it. I've been known to work in a pac board or two!

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RE: What is this?
by James Marous 20 Jan '00

20 Jan '00

You'll be happy..... -----Original Message----- From: Kev [mailto:KKlopp@EROLS.COM] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 6:48 PM To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com Subject: Re: What is this? Have word that my unit has arrived, albeit at my parent's home. Kev mowerman(a)erols.com > > Damn! I order one for $89 (Tom Gomer did too) the other week & the guy > > has > > more. > > > > I bought one to give it a try (as Pac Man is my main focus) instead of > > forking out $500 for a 9010A & Z80 pod. > > > > I'm still waiting on my & plan of producing a report of it's abilities as > > soon as I can. > > > [Ranger Mike] > Looking forward to it. I've been known to work in a pac board or > two! > >

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RE: What is this?
by James Marous 19 Jan '00

19 Jan '00

I bought one of those, so did Alex Yeckley. I haven't used it yet, but I did read the manuals and watch the video tape that came with it. I would say they are definitely worth the money. They are brand new, in the box with all the accessories. It is kind of a scaled down version of the 9010, ram, rom and i/o tests as well as a few unique tests like a memory soak and a trace function to identify processor lines. Unlike the 9010 it doesn't replace the mpu, it actually piggybacks it and steals cycles using the dma line. I think I paid $50 + shipping for the whole thing, so it's kind of hard to go wrong for that money. All of the ones for sale on Fleabay were for the Z80, don't know if they exist for other processors or not. James -----Original Message----- From: mike_ranger(a)dofasco.ca [mailto:mike_ranger@dofasco.ca] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:28 PM To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com Subject: What is this? Fluke Model 90 µP Microprocessor Board Tester Showed up on e-gay recently. The description talks about in circuit testing, but does not specify the cpu type. Wonder if it is usefull. Any comments? Mike Text of auction reads: The Fluke Model 90 µP Board Tester is a hand-held, easy-to-operate, tester used to diagnose faults in microprocessor-based devices. The tester is a Direct Memory Access (DMA) device emulator that connects to the microprocessor in the UUT (Unit Under Test). The microprocessor does not have to be removed from the circuit. The tester forces the DMA and WAIT lines on the UUT bus, taking control of the bus from the UUT's microprocessor. Power is supplied by either the +5 volt line at the UUT microprocessor or by and (optional[not included]) external power supply. No connection is required to the UUT other than the microprocessor clip. The Fluke 90 performs the following: Bus Test to determine if any bus line is stuck high or low, or shorted to other bus lines. Memory Test to determine if RAM can be written and read and if ROM contains the proper bit pattern. I/O Test to determine if I/O addresses can be written and read. QuickTrace(tm) to identify the signal name of an address, data, or control signal line and allows the type of signal line to be tracked in the UUT. Detect selected events on the UUT bus by setting and enabling Break-Point, Frame-Point, and SYNC/Trigger Interface functions. Loads the UUT memory over the Remote Communications Interface. Dumps the contents of the UUT memory to a remote terminal or computer via the Remote Communications Interface. > -----Original Message----- > From: James Marous [SMTP:JMarous@midmark.com] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 12:53 PM > To: 'TechToolsList(a)flippers.com' > Subject: RE: Signature Analyzers > > On the subject of KK units.... I have a KK ROM tester, no documentation, > it > just has 2 rows of machine pin sockets on the top and inputs for the sig > analysis connections. I always assumed is just calculates sigs on the > ROMs, > but I never really knew, or used it for that matter. Anyone know about > this one? > > I also picked up a Bugtrap DRAM tester on Fleabay for $10, works great. > Does everything down to 4116s... It is configurable for the timing and > everything. Works great for me, as my current eprom burner/chip tester > doesn't handle triple power supply parts. If you get a chance to grab > one, > I would definitely go for it. I think it's the Bugtrap model 8000. > > James > -----Original Message----- > From: Kev [mailto:KKlopp@EROLS.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 3:20 PM > To: TechToolsList(a)flippers.com > Subject: Re: Signature Analyzers > > > > > > > For some dumb reason I have several of them, I have the HP 5004 and > 5006, > a > > bug trap sig analyzer and a Kurz Kasch model. All are basically about > the > > same, at least as much as I use them. Honestly, I find I seldom use > > signature analysis. About the only time it really comes in handy is > working > > on vector mathboxes. But it's nice to have it for well documented > projects, > > like the cinematronics boards. > > > > James > > Gosh I thought I was the only "dummy" with 3 sig analyzers in the house. > > I've got the Bugtrap (My personal favorite) > Kurz Kash > and the Cat Box. > > If anyone is interested in the KK box I'll sell it or trade it. I've also > go the KK eprom copier & several modules if anyone has any need for that > (read vintage equipment). > > My use of a SA? > > Well I was fighting enough with Bally pinball boards MPU 17 & 35 that I > went > thru & did some SA. > > I started to do Pac-Man but the buffering circuits complicates SA > implimentation. I have used the SA on Pac-Man to catch funky 74ls161's in > the timing section. This is a rare case where a using an O-scope the way > I > do (probe, see if the signal is full range & looks "normal") would not > have > found the faulty 74ls161, since the outputs were toggling & appeared to > work, they just were not correct. > > I have unsuccefully SA a Battlezone Math box before. > > The SA is an okay tool, it will be more powerful the more people document > & > share Signatures. I'd take an O-scope of a SA any day but the SA is > cheaper > and depending on your focus not a bad tool. > > Kev > mowerman(a)erols.com > http://www.erols.com/mowerman

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Re: What is this? (sorry)
by Coinop2000＠aol.com 19 Jan '00

19 Jan '00

Sorry guys, meant for the email to go to Mike Ranger. Dave

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