April 2002 - TechToolsList - listserv.classicarcade.com

RE: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by John Robertson 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

OK, ok, I see that the Extra-Chunky interface is the STANDARD SCSI Hard/CD-ROM interface....now, why won't my SCSI interface read the sucker? ... must get back to my POD-PC interface project, must avoid distractions.... John :-#)# At 02:56 PM 15/04/2002 +0100, Chris Hardy wrote: >Hi guys.. > >Dave Langley obtained a set of unused system floppy disks from Fluke (in >Holland I think), which I have here sitting on my desk. > >Dave was slowly duplicating them on his 9100a before it died, so I offered >to duplicate them here at work. (We have a industrial floppy duplicator >which was used when games came out on floppies instead of disks..). > >The other reason was that it takes about 30 seconds to copy a disk instead >of 10 minutes > >Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to check that the disks are ok.. (and I >have concerns that I may have accidently wiped one of them.. Sorry Dave!!) > >I'll take them home tonight and check that they are readable on the 9100a I >have, if I can work out how to read them using it!.. > >Also, while I'm at it, AFAIK the 9100a harddrive setup is basically a ESDI >(SCSI forerunner) to MFM ST225 interface. I suspect that ESDI is not >compatible with a std SCSI interface, and I wasn't really game to try it out >as this 9100a is on loan to me. > >Now, if anyone can find an old AT or XT ST225 harddrive board it should be a >fairly simple process of sector by sector reading the drive. Of course, >finding another drive to put it one is another question altogether. > >I don't think the "Programmers Keyboard" is as simple as it seems.. You >maybe able to connect up a keyboard, but there is still no way of displaying >the information without a display card that plugs into the 9100a. I'm think >there is a picture of the whole setup in one of the manuals on spies. > >Chris Hardy > >PS BTW One of the useful additions of the 9100a is that it will do bitwise >memory tests.. Great for 2114's and SI boards >PSS I'm not going to be able to reply to emails after Wednesday this week as >I'm going to be on holiday for a month > > > >------------------------- IMPORTANT INFORMATION ------------------------- > >The contents of this email are confidential, may be subject to legal >privilege and protected by copyright. They are intended for the >named addressee only. If you are not the named addressee or a person >acting on behalf and with the authority of the addressee and have received >this email by mistake, any copying, disclosure or dissemination of the >contents of this email to any third party is strictly forbidden by the >sender and the sender reserves all rights and remedies against any person >or entity making any such unauthorised use thereof. If you have received >this email in error, please would you contact the sender immediately by >Telephone +44 (0)20 7551 0000, Fax +44 (0)20 7551 0001 or return of email >and then delete and/or destroy this email. Please note that any views or >opinions presented are (unless the context otherwise makes it clear) solely >those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Virgin >Interactive. > >Please also note that Virgin endeavours at all times to keep its network >free of viruses. You should, however, scan this email and any attachments >to it for any viruses. Virgin will not be held responsible for any viruses >which may be transmitted upon receipt of this email or the opening of any >attachment thereto. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

RE: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by John Robertson 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Just checked both of the SCSI interfaces on (the hard drive and external port) my 9100, turns out that the odd pins are GND, and the even ones seem to be data or control lines. This matches the "SUN Extra-Chunky SCSI interface" as shown on Tommy's Pinout collection: http://csgrad.cs.vt.edu/~tjohnson/pinouts/ now to wire up an interface.... ... must get back to my POD-PC interface project, must avoid distractions.... John :-#)# At 02:56 PM 15/04/2002 +0100, Chris Hardy wrote: >Hi guys.. > >Dave Langley obtained a set of unused system floppy disks from Fluke (in >Holland I think), which I have here sitting on my desk. > >Dave was slowly duplicating them on his 9100a before it died, so I offered >to duplicate them here at work. (We have a industrial floppy duplicator >which was used when games came out on floppies instead of disks..). > >The other reason was that it takes about 30 seconds to copy a disk instead >of 10 minutes > >Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to check that the disks are ok.. (and I >have concerns that I may have accidently wiped one of them.. Sorry Dave!!) > >I'll take them home tonight and check that they are readable on the 9100a I >have, if I can work out how to read them using it!.. > >Also, while I'm at it, AFAIK the 9100a harddrive setup is basically a ESDI >(SCSI forerunner) to MFM ST225 interface. I suspect that ESDI is not >compatible with a std SCSI interface, and I wasn't really game to try it out >as this 9100a is on loan to me. > >Now, if anyone can find an old AT or XT ST225 harddrive board it should be a >fairly simple process of sector by sector reading the drive. Of course, >finding another drive to put it one is another question altogether. > >I don't think the "Programmers Keyboard" is as simple as it seems.. You >maybe able to connect up a keyboard, but there is still no way of displaying >the information without a display card that plugs into the 9100a. I'm think >there is a picture of the whole setup in one of the manuals on spies. > >Chris Hardy > >PS BTW One of the useful additions of the 9100a is that it will do bitwise >memory tests.. Great for 2114's and SI boards >PSS I'm not going to be able to reply to emails after Wednesday this week as >I'm going to be on holiday for a month > > > >------------------------- IMPORTANT INFORMATION ------------------------- > >The contents of this email are confidential, may be subject to legal >privilege and protected by copyright. They are intended for the >named addressee only. If you are not the named addressee or a person >acting on behalf and with the authority of the addressee and have received >this email by mistake, any copying, disclosure or dissemination of the >contents of this email to any third party is strictly forbidden by the >sender and the sender reserves all rights and remedies against any person >or entity making any such unauthorised use thereof. If you have received >this email in error, please would you contact the sender immediately by >Telephone +44 (0)20 7551 0000, Fax +44 (0)20 7551 0001 or return of email >and then delete and/or destroy this email. Please note that any views or >opinions presented are (unless the context otherwise makes it clear) solely >those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Virgin >Interactive. > >Please also note that Virgin endeavours at all times to keep its network >free of viruses. You should, however, scan this email and any attachments >to it for any viruses. Virgin will not be held responsible for any viruses >which may be transmitted upon receipt of this email or the opening of any >attachment thereto. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

RE: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by Chris Hardy 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Hi guys.. Dave Langley obtained a set of unused system floppy disks from Fluke (in Holland I think), which I have here sitting on my desk. Dave was slowly duplicating them on his 9100a before it died, so I offered to duplicate them here at work. (We have a industrial floppy duplicator which was used when games came out on floppies instead of disks..). The other reason was that it takes about 30 seconds to copy a disk instead of 10 minutes Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to check that the disks are ok.. (and I have concerns that I may have accidently wiped one of them.. Sorry Dave!!) I'll take them home tonight and check that they are readable on the 9100a I have, if I can work out how to read them using it!.. Also, while I'm at it, AFAIK the 9100a harddrive setup is basically a ESDI (SCSI forerunner) to MFM ST225 interface. I suspect that ESDI is not compatible with a std SCSI interface, and I wasn't really game to try it out as this 9100a is on loan to me. Now, if anyone can find an old AT or XT ST225 harddrive board it should be a fairly simple process of sector by sector reading the drive. Of course, finding another drive to put it one is another question altogether. I don't think the "Programmers Keyboard" is as simple as it seems.. You maybe able to connect up a keyboard, but there is still no way of displaying the information without a display card that plugs into the 9100a. I'm think there is a picture of the whole setup in one of the manuals on spies. Chris Hardy PS BTW One of the useful additions of the 9100a is that it will do bitwise memory tests.. Great for 2114's and SI boards PSS I'm not going to be able to reply to emails after Wednesday this week as I'm going to be on holiday for a month ------------------------- IMPORTANT INFORMATION ------------------------- The contents of this email are confidential, may be subject to legal privilege and protected by copyright. They are intended for the named addressee only. If you are not the named addressee or a person acting on behalf and with the authority of the addressee and have received this email by mistake, any copying, disclosure or dissemination of the contents of this email to any third party is strictly forbidden by the sender and the sender reserves all rights and remedies against any person or entity making any such unauthorised use thereof. If you have received this email in error, please would you contact the sender immediately by Telephone +44 (0)20 7551 0000, Fax +44 (0)20 7551 0001 or return of email and then delete and/or destroy this email. Please note that any views or opinions presented are (unless the context otherwise makes it clear) solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Virgin Interactive. Please also note that Virgin endeavours at all times to keep its network free of viruses. You should, however, scan this email and any attachments to it for any viruses. Virgin will not be held responsible for any viruses which may be transmitted upon receipt of this email or the opening of any attachment thereto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 2

Re: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by Kev 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

So it is a simple matter of mapping the ascii code to an IBM keyboard? Sounds like a job for a PIC. Is it possible to upload/download programs from the 9100? Thanks, Kev > >Actually the 9100 unit requires 1200 baud ASCII 1 start bit, 8 data, and 2 >stop bits. > >Anyone know what the IBM keyboard sends out? I've been playing with my 9100 >this afternoon, and it states "Keyboard missing" when I attempt to use the >EDIT function. I am going to attempt to read the SCSI based drive with my >W2K SCSI interface. Doubt it will work, but nothing to loose, perhaps it >can be read...more later if anyone is interested... > >John :-#)#

4 10

Re: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by John Robertson 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

Dig up the old PC keyboard that is holding your garage door open, that has the RESET wire built in, it was dropped for the AT keyboards, and thus even an AT/PC keyboard is unlikely to have the RESET line. My AT/PC keyboard is missing the wire...so I added it (pin 4 of the Keyboard BIOS IC is RESET - it's a 8048 clone), but no go. The LEDs all flashed when I pressed the EDIT key, but the machine still claimed that no keyboard was hooked up. So I'm going to hunt for a old IBM PC keyboard tomorrow. John :-#)# At 12:56 AM 15/04/2002 -0400, Corey Stup wrote: > > According to the docs you can copy from the hard drive to a floppy, however > > there is no way to copy the operating system from the hard drive onto > > another hard drive, it appears that Fluke used a copy protection system to > > prevent that. The docs mention that the floppy used to upload the new > > operating system must have their write-protect tab set to write, and then > > you can't reload the new operating system. I tried to hook up a second hard > > drive to the outboard SCSI port, but the system did not appear to identify > > it, wouldn't even ask if I wanted to format it. My W2K SCSI card did not > > identify the drive in the 9100 either...rats... >The software is keyed to the serial number encoded on each machine. >After install, even if you could copy it, you'd have to break the >protection scheme to use it on another 9100. Although I had emails from >previous members (maybe not on Techtools, but another list) of someone >that had found never-installed disks and was going to make images of >them for others to download. > >Also note that both drives in my 9100's are MFM. They have a WD1006 >"adaptor" card which translates them into ESDI, which is a precursor of >SCSI. > >Also, from what little poking around I've done of the original code, the >software is keyed to several drive types. If a new drive installed >doesn't match specific parameters, it won't recognize it. > > > Certainly an IBM keyboard will plug in, and it is set up correctly for the > > power, but with no schematics on the 9100 I can't tell if the signal lines > > are configured correctly. Neither the AT or PC settings work, although the > > PC setting will allow the Num/Cap key LEDs to lit on/off. >I believe this has been investigated before. I think the >implementation is different enough to not allow a PC keyboard to just >plug in. An adaptor (as suggested, perhaps using a simple PIC) would >probably have to be developed. > >Also note that when using the keyboard, you also have to use the >external monitor. The internal display is only used for "operation", >the monitor/keyboard for "programming". Kinda wierd. > >I have a keyboard, perhaps if I get time (and it would help someone) I >could poke around to see how it works.

1 0

Re: Programming the Fluke 9100 - Am I out of luck?
by ayeckley 15 Apr '02

15 Apr '02

>You should be able to tell if you have the programming option by > looking for the 9 pin D-type connection (like a serial port) on the back. Nope, I don't have it, but for some reason I do have the two 25 pin COM ports - utterly useless! >PS - If anyone understands keyboard interfacing and might be able to figure >out what makes the Fluke keyboard special (and hopefully make an adapter for >normal keyboards), let me know. I have a Fluke keyboard, minus keys, that I >can loan out if someone is serious about the project. I ran across a blurb in the service manual than mentions it uses a 2400 (IIRC) baud serial interface. My plan *was* to use a COM port on a PC to emulate the keyboard (there was also a table listing the key mapping), but there is little point if it won't get me anywhere. Sigh, thanks for your help. Looks like its back to the 9010 for me :-( Alex http://www.elektronforge.com ayeckley(a)elektronforge.com To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request(a)flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr(a)flippers.com.

2 1

More Fluke docs uploaded
by John Robertson 14 Apr '02

14 Apr '02

I just scanned in a few new things: 1984 collection of articles (Vol 2 new stuff!) 1985 collection of articles (Vol 3 more new stuff!) A cool colour advertising brochure on the 90oo series Micro-System troubleshooters "Fast, automatic testing that goes far beyond signature analysis" An sales article (2 pages) on the 9020A and IEE-488 production testing. I've also renamed the files to be a bit more consistent... ftp.flippers.com/Fluke/PDFs John :-#)#

1 0

Fluke compiler software
by Matthew Rossiter 12 Apr '02

12 Apr '02

I wasn't able to read the disk because it said it couldn't recognize any file system. How important is this software to you guys? If you *really* want it - maybe I can try some data recovery software or locate the software from someone else. I guess you guys have been using http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/f9010.zip this, by Fredric Rice right? Is it working out ok? I'll probably start messing with it tonight to see how well it works. Matt

7 22

RE: Fluke compiler software
by Chris Toseland 04 Apr '02

04 Apr '02

I belive it is also important to make steady progress rather than trying to think of every enhancement we want and then build it. Just look at the Arcade ICE or RatBox projects if you want to see what that thinking produces. Touche' Kev ;o) Time for an update on (non)progress so far. 1) Trashed idea of using a cpu to generate cpu control signals as this didn't give 'real time' control over the board. So the ICE requires a few configuration parameters (data and address setting, whether its read or write IO or memory) give it a start strobe and it performs 1 complete bus cycle at cpu speed and stops. Adding an onboard CPU would give scope to loop tests at higher speed rather than multiple requests for cycles through the Comms I/F. 2) Now using state machines to 'Accurately' simulate CPU control signals synchronised from UUT cpu clock. Currently have WORKING and tested state machines for Z80 (includes selectable refresh ability) and 6502, 680X are the next in the design pipeline. The prototypes use TTL logic the final version will use an FPGA to make it more compact. 3) Clock(input to cpu socket) speed counter incorporated (I know someone on here was on about that in the past weeks). 4) Re-instating the board files (memory map/ICE config info) that I dropped from ICE Mk1. 5) All other operational features will be incorporated as per the spec page on my now defunct website. 6) It will have RS232 when I get VB6 to talk properly as at the moment it seems to buffer comms data all over the place (anyone who uses VB Comms, any help would be appreciated) or I could just revert to it being parallel port driven again. 7)Disussions where held with various interested parties over the weekend of the last UKVAC meet, Mike Coates being one respondent getting his ear bent. The out come from those talks hasn't changed my hardware design (Hallelujah) but there was a request for a Dissasembler built into the GUI and an Emulator for each CPU so that the board can be 'run' though this would be sort of a single step mode. I see this feature as a 'would be great to have' but it isn't a priority and may get done sometime never. Wow imagine that me using the work priority! When will it be available? Don't ask I'm fitting it inbetween my studies for the MCSE exams in 5 weeks time, after that I should be able to devote plenty of time to it. Thats all for now Chris Arcade ICE (thinker not do'er)

1 0

Z80-QT manual now in...
by John Robertson 02 Apr '02

02 Apr '02

I just got in a NOS copy of the Z80QT manual and it goes into more detail on how that function works, plus more detail on the error messages for the pods under self test. This should aid my Pod to Parallel interface project! It's fat and I don't have a document feeder on my scanner (yet) sooooo it might be a while before I get around to scanning it in. About thirty or forty double sided pages... I had winning bid on a ADF scanner on eBay but I got it for $52US and the seller is ignoring my emails.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2012440905 John :-#)#

1 0