Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector?
I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem. But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode. Verified the WD is working correctly. So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals. Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly. Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention? Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that? David _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I have used both approaches. The "glomper clip" approach worked out better for me, but usually required replacing the original CPU socket first. YMMV. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 3:59 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem. But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode. Verified the WD is working correctly. So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals. Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly. Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention? Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that? David _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I have replaced all sockets on the board (rom, prom, and CPU). So that isn't a problem. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of Alex Yeckley Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:16 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have used both approaches. The "glomper clip" approach worked out better for me, but usually required replacing the original CPU socket first. YMMV. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 3:59 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem. But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode. Verified the WD is working correctly. So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals. Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly. Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention? Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that? David _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
One of the main reasons for my take on this is that I almost always needed to monitor a signal (such as the CPU clock) that wasn't brought out to the card edge. I suppose if you add some sort of flying probe connection then the edge might be more useful. You'll also need to reverse-engineer at least some portions of the code, if you haven't already. I'm guessing you knew that. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 4:30 PM To: 'Technical Tools Mail List' <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have replaced all sockets on the board (rom, prom, and CPU). So that isn't a problem. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of Alex Yeckley Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:16 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have used both approaches. The "glomper clip" approach worked out better for me, but usually required replacing the original CPU socket first. YMMV. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 3:59 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem. But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode. Verified the WD is working correctly. So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals. Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly. Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention? Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that? David _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
In preparation for this I was looking at the missile command source code from https://6502disassembly.com/va-missile-command/ looking at the reset vector and how the self test is started: And looking over the self test it (at a high level) Starts the pokey growling Lights player 1 start light (which I don't have connected on the test bench) Reads the inputs port (0x4900) and watches for the VBLANK signal, spinning until it sees it. Feed the watchdog Change the poke sound to a "pure tone and lower volume" Test the zero page and stack ram This got me thinking, I am never hearing anything but the growl, so I let it run in self test for a minute, then use the 9010 to read some zero page values, all 0.... Hmm, so its not getting to the memory test. Used the 9010 to read 0x4900 and it is always returning BF, which doesn't make sense as the vblank should be causing it to change (and the self test switch does change it so the read is working). The screen looks fine so the VBLANK is working. Tossed my HP logic comparator onto the 244 used to read the inputs and it reported pin 9 bad (which happens to be the pin that VBLANK is read through). Piggybacked a new 244 and self test started up fine, and game mode works. So it was all stalled on waiting for that vblank test which wasn't coming through. Still going to look at setting up the LA on the connector for future use but this one is fixed. David -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of Alex Yeckley Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:35 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? One of the main reasons for my take on this is that I almost always needed to monitor a signal (such as the CPU clock) that wasn't brought out to the card edge. I suppose if you add some sort of flying probe connection then the edge might be more useful. You'll also need to reverse-engineer at least some portions of the code, if you haven't already. I'm guessing you knew that. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 4:30 PM To: 'Technical Tools Mail List' <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have replaced all sockets on the board (rom, prom, and CPU). So that isn't a problem. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of Alex Yeckley Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:16 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have used both approaches. The "glomper clip" approach worked out better for me, but usually required replacing the original CPU socket first. YMMV. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist <techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com> On Behalf Of davids@oz.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 3:59 PM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic analysis and the Atari Test connector? I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem. But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode. Verified the WD is working correctly. So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals. Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly. Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention? Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that? David _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2023/05/24 12:59 p.m., davids@oz.net wrote:
I have a missile command board which using the fluke 9010 passes all memory and rom tests perfectly. Also can exercise the pokey with no problem.
But when I try to go to UUT the game just starts to make an explosionish sound and then watchdogs. Game mode and test mode.
Verified the WD is working correctly.
So my next thought was to connect the 16702B to the CPU address and data lines and see if I could figure out where the startup goes off the rails. Not supper excited about having to use the test clips on 16 bits of address, 8 bits of data and misc other signals.
Realizing there is that nice juicy edge connector right next to the CPU I was thinking about having an adapter board made that would have and edge card and then a set of pod connectors that I could just plug the pod cables into directly.
This connector was for the Atari CAT BOX, (and I assume a similar test tool was available for Midway games like Galaxian and Pacman - not that I ever saw one) I've thought it would be nice to have a plug for the Fluke to use that. Of course the 6502 has to be removed as it doesn't have an easy way to float the Address or Data lines. John :-#)#
Am I reinventing the wheel here? Anyone done this and have any gotchas to mention?
Or am I over thinking this and should just get a 40 pin glomper clip and attach to the top of the CPU? And connect to that?
David
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
participants (3)
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Alex Yeckley -
davids＠oz.net -
John Robertson via Techtoolslist