Re: [Techtoolslist] 9100FT Programmer’s Keyboard
On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 12:12 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
I have uploaded photos of the insides of the OAK keyboard to:
Under /Fluke/9100_series/9100_Keyboard...
Will copy the binary code there too, makes more sense as it is not actually part of the adapter project.
In case it's not obvious (given the Subject line) the above OAK keyboard was used on the earlier 9100A. I don't have an A keyboard but I believe you can use an A keyboard on an FT and vica-versa. I de-soldered and dumped the ROM of one of my 9100FT keyboards (they are all the same). Attached are some pics of the 9100FT keyboard and a Keytronic KB-101 I got for $20 off eBay (it had been mentioned previously as being a possible conversion candidate - http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/2017q4/002920.html) This is the standard KB-101, not the Plus version (which has a different LED layout). The cable feeds in from the opposite side than the Fluke otherwise it's very similar, ignoring of course the keycap labeling. The KB-101 is unfortunately a different board version. There is a socket for an EPROM which is unpopulated. The microcontroller has slightly different markings (20417-65/8031) than the Fluke (20417-36/8031). If I connect the KB-101 to a PC it works which is interesting as normally the 8031 has no internal ROM. The KB-101 cable is pinned out differently and there are more DIP switches on the KB-101. Populated with the Fluke data and using the Fluke cable, unfortunately, it's not recognized by the 9100FT. I only had 20 mins to look at it. Hopefully I'll have more time this weekend. It's possible one of the additional DIP switches selects the external ROM. Anyways, here is a link to some pics and the ROM data which I know Andrew Finn was looking for -- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eow5jZ0RXSx4OVqG05EAQvBJIj_DSySA HTH Tony _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I thought the 8031 had an option to boot externally if you tied a leg low... On vacation and too lazy to hunt for data sheets to view on my phone, as I will be wandering around Oxford (UK) for the next two days. Then London on Sat and back home Sunday. John :-#)#
On Oct 18, 2018, at 6:32 AM, Tony Jones via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 12:12 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: I have uploaded photos of the insides of the OAK keyboard to:
Under /Fluke/9100_series/9100_Keyboard...
Will copy the binary code there too, makes more sense as it is not actually part of the adapter project.
In case it's not obvious (given the Subject line) the above OAK keyboard was used on the earlier 9100A. I don't have an A keyboard but I believe you can use an A keyboard on an FT and vica-versa.
I de-soldered and dumped the ROM of one of my 9100FT keyboards (they are all the same).
Attached are some pics of the 9100FT keyboard and a Keytronic KB-101 I got for $20 off eBay (it had been mentioned previously as being a possible conversion candidate - http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/2017q4/002920.html)
This is the standard KB-101, not the Plus version (which has a different LED layout). The cable feeds in from the opposite side than the Fluke otherwise it's very similar, ignoring of course the keycap labeling.
The KB-101 is unfortunately a different board version. There is a socket for an EPROM which is unpopulated. The microcontroller has slightly different markings (20417-65/8031) than the Fluke (20417-36/8031). If I connect the KB-101 to a PC it works which is interesting as normally the 8031 has no internal ROM.
The KB-101 cable is pinned out differently and there are more DIP switches on the KB-101. Populated with the Fluke data and using the Fluke cable, unfortunately, it's not recognized by the 9100FT.
I only had 20 mins to look at it. Hopefully I'll have more time this weekend. It's possible one of the additional DIP switches selects the external ROM. Anyways, here is a link to some pics and the ROM data which I know Andrew Finn was looking for -- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eow5jZ0RXSx4OVqG05EAQvBJIj_DSySA
HTH
Tony _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 12:12 AM John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
I thought the 8031 had an option to boot externally if you tied a leg low...
Yes, _EA_ but the 8031 is supposed to be ROMless and so pin 31 should always be low. On the 8051 it's high to use onboard 4k ROM, low for external. Either way I'll check when I have time. As I said in previous message its possible it's controlled by one of the 8 dip switches but it seemed odd the chip was still marked 8031. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Fantastic!! Will download the rom later!!! The 8031 used in the kb101 does have a masked eprom inside version determined by 36 or there is different for other newer versions of keyboards, I will definitely have a play later as I bought a old kb101 and have removed the masked processor, so will try this out!! Only thing missing is there is only 4 wires going to the plug, but in fluke it is 5 wires! So the pin to tell the fluke 9100 there is a keyboard attached pin is missing! So some work needs to be done there to work out where that comes from in the keyboard!! But again many thanks for the rom!!! When I get home from work I will download it!! Andrew
On 18 Oct 2018, at 6:32 am, Tony Jones via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 12:12 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: I have uploaded photos of the insides of the OAK keyboard to:
Under /Fluke/9100_series/9100_Keyboard...
Will copy the binary code there too, makes more sense as it is not actually part of the adapter project.
In case it's not obvious (given the Subject line) the above OAK keyboard was used on the earlier 9100A. I don't have an A keyboard but I believe you can use an A keyboard on an FT and vica-versa.
I de-soldered and dumped the ROM of one of my 9100FT keyboards (they are all the same).
Attached are some pics of the 9100FT keyboard and a Keytronic KB-101 I got for $20 off eBay (it had been mentioned previously as being a possible conversion candidate - http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/2017q4/002920.html)
This is the standard KB-101, not the Plus version (which has a different LED layout). The cable feeds in from the opposite side than the Fluke otherwise it's very similar, ignoring of course the keycap labeling.
The KB-101 is unfortunately a different board version. There is a socket for an EPROM which is unpopulated. The microcontroller has slightly different markings (20417-65/8031) than the Fluke (20417-36/8031). If I connect the KB-101 to a PC it works which is interesting as normally the 8031 has no internal ROM.
The KB-101 cable is pinned out differently and there are more DIP switches on the KB-101. Populated with the Fluke data and using the Fluke cable, unfortunately, it's not recognized by the 9100FT.
I only had 20 mins to look at it. Hopefully I'll have more time this weekend. It's possible one of the additional DIP switches selects the external ROM. Anyways, here is a link to some pics and the ROM data which I know Andrew Finn was looking for -- https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eow5jZ0RXSx4OVqG05EAQvBJIj_DSySA
HTH
Tony _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 7:59 AM Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Only thing missing is there is only 4 wires going to the plug, but in fluke it is 5 wires! So the pin to tell the fluke 9100 there is a keyboard attached pin is missing! So some work needs to be done there to work out where that comes from in the keyboard!!
I attached pictures in previous post showing this distinction but the connector on the PCB is identical, one pin is just not populated on the kb101. Seems an easy fix, no? _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
No it is not connected to anything on my kb101 just a empty pin!!
On 18 Oct 2018, at 4:07 pm, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 7:59 AM Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Only thing missing is there is only 4 wires going to the plug, but in fluke it is 5 wires! So the pin to tell the fluke 9100 there is a keyboard attached pin is missing! So some work needs to be done there to work out where that comes from in the keyboard!!
I attached pictures in previous post showing this distinction but the connector on the PCB is identical, one pin is just not populated on the kb101. Seems an easy fix, no? _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
No it is not connected to anything on my kb101 just a empty pin!!
I understand. This is the pinout of the 2 cables in case it helps. Below DIN numbering is when viewing exposed male pins per this: http://www.hilmanind.com/pinouts/midi.htm fluke din keytronics pcb connector 1 1 red 4 5 yellow 2 2 brown 5 6 clear 3 3 orange shell spade kb101 din keytronics pcb connector 1 6 red 4 2 yellow 2 5 brown 5 1 lt grey 3 n/c shell spade As expected, when the KB-101 is connected to a PC, EA (31) on the the 8031 is high so as you said, this 8031 has a built in ROM. Why not mark it 8051, odd. If I plug the keyboard cable from the Fluke into the KB-101, EA is low with or without a ROM being installed which I was not expecting. The keyboard was still unrecognized. There are a lot of unfilled positions for components on both boards. I imagine it's like the Cherry keyboards (as Paul documented you can convert a Quantel Cherry to an ABI Cherry by swapping passives but the pcb version are the same so it's simple). I'll be curious to adapt mine when you figure it out ;-) I'm curious on the custom keycaps. I know a few places make custom cherry keycaps (no clue if keytronic are the same - I can't believe people collect keyboards just for the sake of it) but they're quite spendy per key and you have a lot of keys here that need relabeling. You may have more luck removing the old legend and finding someone with a laser etching system as you can use toner powder and a laser in the mW range to label the caps, there's a few Youtube video's on people doing it. Good luck. Hope the info helps. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
participants (4)
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Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist -
John Robertson -
Tony Jones -
Tony Jones via Techtoolslist