I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped! All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout. The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png The Service Manual which this is a supplement to (9100A Service Manual p/n 809210, May 1988) only lists the Fluke stock number, 757120, in fig. 5-20 on p. 5-50. 9100FT Service Manual (p/n 910476, November 1991), fig. 5-18, p. 5-49 ---- This has new stock and parts numbers. s/n 887216, p/n E04008051. The later revision more closely resembles a 1990s 101-key PC keyboard, with separate numpad and arrow keys. It seems to work fine on a 9100A. Since this an uncommon keyboard, I naturally tore it apart and took some photos of the inside before even plugging it in. These are available on https://www.dropbox.com/s/sa34h6252476012/9100FT-Keyboard.zip?dl=0, and probably ought to go into the TTL FTP. It seems to be second-sourced from KeyTronics, which might explain the lack of documentation (schematics, etc) in the Fluke service manuals. Even though it looks like a PC keyboard, it uses uncommon capacative (hybrid mechanical) switches mounted on a metal plate, and feels much sturdier than the 1990s rubber dome board I was expecting. The controller is an 8031, with the program in a 2764 EPROM. I’m going to see if I can dump it, though it’s soldered in and I’d prefer not to remove it. There are two DIP switches which are accessible via a panel on the bottom. I have no idea what (if anything) they do. I’ve built a few keyboards from kits, so I was hoping that with a good look inside, it might be possible build a reproduction with the same microcontroller and program. While the 8031/2764 is excellent news for this, the rest is a downer. There’s an Exar 22-00958-000 IC which handles the capacitive keyswitches and provides keypress data to the 8031. It looks like the switches and controller are hard to come by, which renders the program on the EPROM useless. Still, maybe someone could adapt another KeyTronics board, as they seem to be fairly similar. Here’s a couple pages I found that have info on KeyTronics keyboards, and might be useful. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58612-Key-Tronic-KB3270-Plus-ROM-d... http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/kb3270.html https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37968.0 -- Ian _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote:
I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
The Service Manual which this is a supplement to (9100A Service Manual p/n 809210, May 1988) only lists the Fluke stock number, 757120, in fig. 5-20 on p. 5-50.
9100FT Service Manual (p/n 910476, November 1991), fig. 5-18, p. 5-49 ---- This has new stock and parts numbers. s/n 887216, p/n E04008051.
The later revision more closely resembles a 1990s 101-key PC keyboard, with separate numpad and arrow keys. It seems to work fine on a 9100A.
Since this an uncommon keyboard, I naturally tore it apart and took some photos of the inside before even plugging it in. These are available on https://www.dropbox.com/s/sa34h6252476012/9100FT-Keyboard.zip?dl=0, and probably ought to go into the TTL FTP. On the way...
It seems to be second-sourced from KeyTronics, which might explain the lack of documentation (schematics, etc) in the Fluke service manuals. Even though it looks like a PC keyboard, it uses uncommon capacative (hybrid mechanical) switches mounted on a metal plate, and feels much sturdier than the 1990s rubber dome board I was expecting. The controller is an 8031, with the program in a 2764 EPROM. I’m going to see if I can dump it, though it’s soldered in and I’d prefer not to remove it.
There are two DIP switches which are accessible via a panel on the bottom. I have no idea what (if anything) they do.
I’ve built a few keyboards from kits, so I was hoping that with a good look inside, it might be possible build a reproduction with the same microcontroller and program. While the 8031/2764 is excellent news for this, the rest is a downer. There’s an Exar 22-00958-000 IC which handles the capacitive keyswitches and provides keypress data to the 8031. It looks like the switches and controller are hard to come by, which renders the program on the EPROM useless. Still, maybe someone could adapt another KeyTronics board, as they seem to be fairly similar.
Here’s a couple pages I found that have info on KeyTronics keyboards, and might be useful.
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58612-Key-Tronic-KB3270-Plus-ROM-d... http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/kb3270.html https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37968.0
-- Ian _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Thanks! Wish I had time to play with my 9100FTs! John :-#)# -- How to subscribe or unsubscribe from TTL http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;... I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one.
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model. Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Ian It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot! Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :) William Stillwell Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: > > On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: > > On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: > I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t > know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions > of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, > which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new > old stock, for $36 shipped! > > All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered > why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match > the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a > later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision > of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows > the earlier keyboard layout. > > The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: > > 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 > ---- > Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of > the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, > angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. > > Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051. The program should be entirely in that EPROM. David
On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >> >> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >> >> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >> old stock, for $36 shipped! >> >> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >> the earlier keyboard layout. >> >> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >> >> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >> ---- >> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >> >> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png > Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Correct. 805x has onboard EEPROM, 803x uses a discrete ROM. The 2764 EPROM on the Fluke board will fit into the 8052’s onboard EEPROM, but not the 8051’s. My weekend is full, but I’m going to see about getting a dump of this EPROM soon.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 2:15 PM, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051. The program should be entirely in that EPROM.
David
On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
>>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >>> >>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >>> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >>> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >>> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >>> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >>> old stock, for $36 shipped! >>> >>> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >>> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >>> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >>> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >>> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >>> the earlier keyboard layout. >>> >>> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >>> >>> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >>> ---- >>> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >>> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >>> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >>> >>> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png >> Broken link. > > Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 > > I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. > _______________________________________________ > Techtoolslist mailing list > Techtoolslist@flippers.com > https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist > FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment > Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I got the KB101 today. The layout is a bit different, but it uses the same switches, custom switch controller, 8031, and has a socketed EPROM with the code on it. I’m going to compare more closely to the Fluke board, I’m still hoping that swapping the EPROM over gets me most of the way there. Ian Eure writes:
Correct. 805x has onboard EEPROM, 803x uses a discrete ROM. The 2764 EPROM on the Fluke board will fit into the 8052’s onboard EEPROM, but not the 8051’s.
My weekend is full, but I’m going to see about getting a dump of this EPROM soon.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 2:15 PM, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051. The program should be entirely in that EPROM.
David
On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: > > WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! > > It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! > Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! > > The project goes on!!!!! > > > >>>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >>>> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >>>> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >>>> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >>>> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >>>> old stock, for $36 shipped! >>>> >>>> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >>>> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >>>> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >>>> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >>>> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >>>> the earlier keyboard layout. >>>> >>>> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >>>> >>>> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >>>> ---- >>>> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >>>> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >>>> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >>>> >>>> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png >>> Broken link. >> >> Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 >> >> I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. >> _______________________________________________ >> Techtoolslist mailing list >> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ > > _______________________________________________ > Techtoolslist mailing list > Techtoolslist@flippers.com > https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist > FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment > Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
This is very interesting stuff!!! Was the rom ever dumped from the fluke keyboard? Would be interesting to break down the source code and see how it is programmed If it was dumped any chance of getting a copy?? Many thanks Andrew
On 11 Oct 2017, at 1:05 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
I got the KB101 today. The layout is a bit different, but it uses the same switches, custom switch controller, 8031, and has a socketed EPROM with the code on it.
I’m going to compare more closely to the Fluke board, I’m still hoping that swapping the EPROM over gets me most of the way there.
Ian Eure writes:
Correct. 805x has onboard EEPROM, 803x uses a discrete ROM. The 2764 EPROM on the Fluke board will fit into the 8052’s onboard EEPROM, but not the 8051’s.
My weekend is full, but I’m going to see about getting a dump of this EPROM soon.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 2:15 PM, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051. The program should be entirely in that EPROM.
David
On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
> On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: > > Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model. > > Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too. > >> On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: >> >> WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! >> >> It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! >> Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! >> >> The project goes on!!!!! >> >> >> >>>>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >>>>> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >>>>> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >>>>> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >>>>> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >>>>> old stock, for $36 shipped! >>>>> >>>>> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >>>>> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >>>>> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >>>>> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >>>>> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >>>>> the earlier keyboard layout. >>>>> >>>>> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >>>>> >>>>> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >>>>> ---- >>>>> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >>>>> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >>>>> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >>>>> >>>>> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png >>>> Broken link. >>> >>> Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 >>> >>> I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Techtoolslist mailing list >>> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >>> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >>> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Techtoolslist mailing list >> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ > > _______________________________________________ > Techtoolslist mailing list > Techtoolslist@flippers.com > https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist > FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment > Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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On June 30, 2018 10:19:24 AM PDT, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
This is very interesting stuff!!!
Was the rom ever dumped from the fluke keyboard? Would be interesting to break down the source code and see how it is programmed
If it was dumped any chance of getting a copy??
Many thanks Andrew
On 11 Oct 2017, at 1:05 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
I got the KB101 today. The layout is a bit different, but it uses the same switches, custom switch controller, 8031, and has a socketed EPROM with the code on it.
I’m going to compare more closely to the Fluke board, I’m still hoping that swapping the EPROM over gets me most of the way there.
Ian Eure writes:
Correct. 805x has onboard EEPROM, 803x uses a discrete ROM. The 2764 EPROM on the Fluke board will fit into the 8052’s onboard EEPROM, but not the 8051’s.
My weekend is full, but I’m going to see about getting a dump of this EPROM soon.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 2:15 PM, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1@gmail.com> wrote:
Ummm... 8031 is a ROM-less 8051. The program should be entirely in that EPROM.
David
On Oct 6, 2017, at 5:14 PM, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: > > Ian > > It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot! > > Sent from my iPhone > Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone > >> On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >> >> Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model. >> >> Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too. >> >>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: >>> >>> WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! >>> >>> It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! >>> Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! >>> >>> The project goes on!!!!! >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >>>>>> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >>>>>> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >>>>>> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >>>>>> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >>>>>> old stock, for $36 shipped! >>>>>> >>>>>> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >>>>>> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >>>>>> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >>>>>> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >>>>>> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >>>>>> the earlier keyboard layout. >>>>>> >>>>>> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >>>>>> >>>>>> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >>>>>> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >>>>>> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >>>>>> >>>>>> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png >>>>> Broken link. >>>> >>>> Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 >>>> >>>> I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Techtoolslist mailing list >>>> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >>>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >>>> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >>>> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Techtoolslist mailing list >>> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >>> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >>> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >>> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Techtoolslist mailing list >> Techtoolslist@flippers.com >> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist >> FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment >> Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ > > _______________________________________________ > Techtoolslist mailing list > Techtoolslist@flippers.com > https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist > FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment > Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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I haven't dumped it, due to not having desolderered it. While I have a good record getting parts of boards, I want to at least have a backup 9100 keyboard before I risk breaking the one I have. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I have a couple of these FT style programmers keyboards. I'm off to Europe on Monday but when I get back I'll desolder and dump it. Andrew, feel free to remind me. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Oh sounds great!! I have finally found a Key Tronic capacitive 101 keyboard which is on its way which I believe it has the capacitive 22-00985-000 chip in it and likely to have the 8051 cpu chip of that era in it ( standard masked programmed code). If this is the case then the plan is to change it for a 8752 chip programmed with the rom code for the fluke keyboard.... but that’s the problem, I have tried to get the rom code from keytronics but no joy there! They now hold nothing of the work on there old keyboards!! So as far as I know you are the only one that has the eprom code!! So if the eprom fails there is no chance of restricting even your own keyboard!! If that does not work then I am interested in disassembling the rom code to find out when it sends the “wake up 9100 a keyboard is here code” just the once or in every key press , and to see the look up table for the key codes inside the eprom! Just something I would if possible like to look into Cheers and many thanks Andrew
On 30 Jun 2018, at 9:17 pm, Tony Jones via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I have a couple of these FT style programmers keyboards. I'm off to Europe on Monday but when I get back I'll desolder and dump it. Andrew, feel free to remind me. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 2:08 PM Andrew Finn <andrew.finn@lineone.net> wrote:
So if the eprom fails there is no chance of restricting [sic] even your own keyboard!! Yes, agreed, it would be a good idea to extract the code. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
it would not be hard to retro fit my code into this style keyboard to give you a keyboard. William Stillwell Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 5:19 PM Tony Jones via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018, 2:08 PM Andrew Finn <andrew.finn@lineone.net> wrote:
So if the eprom fails there is no chance of restricting [sic] even your own keyboard!!
Yes, agreed, it would be a good idea to extract the code. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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Now that's a plan!! I for one am interested to know how you get on!! Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 10:14 pm, William Stillwell <ki4swy@gmail.com> wrote:
i think the key is: Can we Dump the 8031 :)
William Stillwell
Board Member - Inspiration labs, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member - West Central Florida Group, Inc. a 501c3 organization
Board Member & Co-Founder - Byte Amusement Group // Free Play Florida Arcade & Pinball Show a 501c3 organization
Board Member - Clearwater Amateur Radio Society
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Could be. If that’s the case, I’d see about programming the dump of the EPROM from the Fluke keyboard onto the onboard EEPROM of an 8052, and swapping that in. That should produce the correct ASCII output. Not sure about the speed. I didn’t see a clock generator on mine, so that might be part of the software, which should be taken care of if the EPROM code is running.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Ian
It will have a masked Rom inside the 8031, it will have no separate rom, roms were only in the special keyboards made for other things other than pc's. Not as simple as you think to change, not only the keys will emit different hex codes to the fluke keys, the baud rate will also need to be slowed down a lot!
Sent from my iPhone Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes as this was sent from my iPhone
On 6 Oct 2017, at 9:09 pm, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
Great info, thanks for sharing. I just bought a KB101 I found on eBay. When it gets here, I’ll see if it can be converted. Sure would be great news if it’s just swapping in the EPROM from the Fluke model.
Can someone open the 9100A keyboard? I’d like to see what’s in those, too.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
>> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: >> >> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: >> >> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t >> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >> old stock, for $36 shipped! >> >> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered >> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a >> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision >> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows >> the earlier keyboard layout. >> >> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >> >> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >> ---- >> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of >> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, >> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >> >> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png > Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then. On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link. Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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thats called the fluke, 9125. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) < enginr@windstream.net> wrote:
Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then.
On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote:
WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote:
I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Broken link.
Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com /smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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This has been done a couple times, but none of them are currently available or very well documented. I’m sure it would be well-received if you produced a new version. Personally, I’m interested in understanding the original, and replicating it, if possible, so a converter box is less desirable for me.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) <enginr@windstream.net> wrote:
Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then.
On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote: WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link. Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;...
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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I am working on a version now, I received a keyboard for testing so should be soon. On Oct 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Ian Eure" <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
This has been done a couple times, but none of them are currently available or very well documented. I’m sure it would be well-received if you produced a new version.
Personally, I’m interested in understanding the original, and replicating it, if possible, so a converter box is less desirable for me.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) < enginr@windstream.net> wrote:
Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then.
On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote: WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!!
It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!!
The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new old stock, for $36 shipped!
All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows the earlier keyboard layout.
The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers:
9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 ---- Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys.
Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link. Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160
I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Today I opened my 9100 programmers keyboard #757120 (made by OAK) and they nicely had put the keyboard code in a 2716 mounted on a Z8603RS. Here is the code: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org//home/mirrors/flippers/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9100%20Series/Keyboard_Adapter/Z8603RS_KYBD_9100.bin John :-#)# PS, Side note - if your 9100 build in keyboard is stiff when you pull it open be sure to take it apart and add a tiny dollop of silicon grease to each of the wiper assemblies - otherwise it can break the housing as the plastic is getting brittle with age. If you do break any plastic Methylene Chloride works as a solvent to repair it. PPS, as an Easter Egg, did you know that the 9100A keyboard has a great many signatures imprinted on the underside of the plastic cover? Nice! On 2017/10/07 10:32 AM, William Stillwell wrote:
I am working on a version now, I received a keyboard for testing so should be soon.
On Oct 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Ian Eure" <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
This has been done a couple times, but none of them are currently available or very well documented. I’m sure it would be well-received if you produced a new version.
Personally, I’m interested in understanding the original, and replicating it, if possible, so a converter box is less desirable for me.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) < enginr@windstream.net> wrote: Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then.
On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote: WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! The project goes on!!!!!
On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote: > > On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: > I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I don’t > know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions > of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, > which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new > old stock, for $36 shipped! > > All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always wondered > why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match > the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans of a > later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later revision > of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it shows > the earlier keyboard layout. > > The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: > > 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 > ---- > Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common version of > the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far right, > angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. > > Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png Broken link. Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one.
Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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I have uploaded photos of the insides of the OAK keyboard to: Under /Fluke/9100_series/9100_Keyboard... Will copy the binary code there too, makes more sense as it is not actually part of the adapter project. John :-#)# On 2018/09/06 12:50 PM, John Robertson wrote:
Today I opened my 9100 programmers keyboard #757120 (made by OAK) and they nicely had put the keyboard code in a 2716 mounted on a Z8603RS.
Here is the code:
ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org//home/mirrors/flippers/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9100%20Series/Keyboard_Adapter/Z8603RS_KYBD_9100.bin
John :-#)#
PS, Side note - if your 9100 build in keyboard is stiff when you pull it open be sure to take it apart and add a tiny dollop of silicon grease to each of the wiper assemblies - otherwise it can break the housing as the plastic is getting brittle with age. If you do break any plastic Methylene Chloride works as a solvent to repair it.
PPS, as an Easter Egg, did you know that the 9100A keyboard has a great many signatures imprinted on the underside of the plastic cover? Nice!
On 2017/10/07 10:32 AM, William Stillwell wrote:
I am working on a version now, I received a keyboard for testing so should be soon.
On Oct 6, 2017 8:13 PM, "Ian Eure" <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote:
This has been done a couple times, but none of them are currently available or very well documented. I’m sure it would be well-received if you produced a new version.
Personally, I’m interested in understanding the original, and replicating it, if possible, so a converter box is less desirable for me.
On Oct 6, 2017, at 3:56 PM, Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) < enginr@windstream.net> wrote: Make an in-between box that accepts the new keyboard codes as is and converts them to the useful hex code at the useful baud rate. What? Maybe five chips on a 2 x 2 board? Just need those custom keycaps, then.
On 10/6/2017 3:20 PM, Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist wrote: WOW many thanks for taking the time and trouble to take and upload the pics of the unit, was very interesting! I emailed keytronics for information or the rom data but as expected they don't have any info now earlier than 2000 so that's out the window!! It is a copy of a keytronics KB101 early keyboard and with the detailed pics have started mapping the keys to the fluke, I am also looking into getting a modern keyboard made with these fluke key legends on them, it has rekindled me to look into all this and devise a pic chip to change the baud rate so a modern keyboard can be used, now I have done the fluke video cards I still need a keyboard so this has inspired me to look into it all again! Getting hold of those old style clicky keyboards seems a very expensive exercise!! But there are company's that will print anything you want on key caps for them, so even that is a option if KB101 keyboards can be found!! The project goes on!!!!!
> On 4 Oct 2017, at 2:07 am, Ian Eure <ian@retrospec.tv> wrote: > >> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:21 PM, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> >> wrote: >> >> On 2017/10/03 5:05 PM, Ian Eure wrote: >> I finally tracked down a Programmer’s Keyboard for my 9100. I >> don’t >> know how widely it’s known, but there were two different versions >> of the keyboard. The only photos I’ve seen are the earlier model, >> which meant that I almost let this one slip away. It was on eBay, new >> old stock, for $36 shipped! >> >> All the info is in the manuals, if you look. I had always >> wondered >> why the keyboard illustrations in the Programmer’s Manual didn’t match >> the photos of the keyboard I’d seen. It’s because I read scans >> of a >> later (1991) printing, which has illustrations of the later >> revision >> of the keyboard. I haven’t seen a 1988 printing, but I bet it >> shows >> the earlier keyboard layout. >> >> The various 9100 service manuals list different part numbers: >> >> 9100A Supplemental Parts List (May 1988), fig. 5-21, p. 5-53 >> ---- >> Lists p/n 5-64995-131. This seems to be the more common >> version of >> the keyboard. It has a block of (mostly) 2u keys on the far >> right, >> angled RETURN key, and arrows by the SHIFT and RETURN keys. >> >> Photo: https://i.imgur.com/undefined.png > Broken link. Here’s what I was trying to share: http://www.dragonslairfans. com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6456.0;attach=11160 I’d be interested to know what’s inside one of these, maybe it uses normal switches and could be used to reproduce one. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
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participants (8)
-
Andrew Finn via Techtoolslist -
Brandon C -
Dave Riddle (Technical Dept.) -
David Ryskalczyk -
Ian Eure -
John Robertson -
Tony Jones via Techtoolslist
-
William Stillwell