Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board... Maybe it would work? Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes... Here is the page: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf <ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf> John :-#)# -- _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either. I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module. In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out. --Brad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board... Maybe it would work? Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes... Here is the page: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf <ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf> John :-#)# -- _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad
I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each: https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri... 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit. They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available. Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display... John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf <ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf>
John :-#)#
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark. Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote. So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD. Thanks, --Brad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad
I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each: https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri... 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit. They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available. Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display... John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf <ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf>
John :-#)#
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I assume you guys saw this: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443... On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote.
So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad
I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
< ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I know him, he is a very nice guy. I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group. JL Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com> escreveu:
I assume you guys saw this:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote.
So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad
I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing,
then
I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
<
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I know him, he is a very nice guy.
I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group.
JL
Thanks for the info. Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED. John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com> escreveu:
I assume you guys saw this:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote. So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
< ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules. I'll call him later to ask for the update. JL Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I know him, he is a very nice guy.
I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group.
JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com>
escreveu:
I assume you guys saw this:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote. So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a
mezzanine
type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
<
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
He sent me this picture. Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins < joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I know him, he is a very nice guy.
I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group.
JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com>
escreveu:
I assume you guys saw this:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost,
but
they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote. So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
<
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I need to work on a replacement display for my 9110... it's very hard to read. On Mon, Dec 5, 2022, 3:56 PM Jose Luiz Martins <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> wrote:
He sent me this picture.
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins < joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I know him, he is a very nice guy.
I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group.
JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com>
escreveu:
I assume you guys saw this:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost,
but
they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote. So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote: > There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays > available (at least that I could find) that would work here without > being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron > graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, > and don't appear readily available either. > > I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 > character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to > be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that > may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may > not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but > anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But > no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed > to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into > character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module. > > In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able > on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the > schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock > (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive > shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and > data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift > registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, > then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character > positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD > character flicker to a minimum. > Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I > can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't > remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped > to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues > and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind > working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out. > > --Brad I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM > Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? > > I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then > I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it > would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit > alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would > be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable > LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the > new display to the board... > > Maybe it would work? > > Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, > but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or > weak tubes... > > Here is the page: >
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
> <
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
> > John :-#)# >
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
He sent me this picture.
That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the future if they ever fail... Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if he can answer that... Thanks! John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: > I know him, he is a very nice guy. > > I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have > interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group. > > > JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
John :-#)#
> > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com> escreveu: > >> I assume you guys saw this: >> >> https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443... >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < >> techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: >> >>> I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but >>> they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT >> Source, >>> the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at >> ~$21.14 >>> each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark. >>> >>> Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were >> lower >>> cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of >> that >>> display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a >> quote. >>> So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine >>> type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone >> know >>> if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A >> of >>> draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V >>> supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power >>> to the VFD. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> --Brad >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? >>> >>> On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote: >>>> There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays >>>> available (at least that I could find) that would work here without >>>> being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron >>>> graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, >>>> and don't appear readily available either. >>>> >>>> I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 >>>> character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to >>>> be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that >>>> may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may >>>> not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but >>>> anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But >>>> no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed >>>> to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into >>>> character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module. >>>> >>>> In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able >>>> on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. >From the >>>> schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock >>>> (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive >>>> shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and >>>> data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift >>>> registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, >>>> then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character >>>> positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD >>>> character flicker to a minimum. >>>> Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I >>>> can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't >>>> remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped >>>> to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues >>>> and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind >>>> working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out. >>>> >>>> --Brad >>> I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will >>> fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each: >>> >>> >>> >> https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri... >>> 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 >>> inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" >>> fluorescent digit. >>> >>> They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available. >>> >>> Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix >>> considering the 9010 is worthless without a display... >>> >>> John :-#)# >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM >>>> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? >>>> >>>> I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, >> then >>>> I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it >>>> would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit >>>> alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that >> would >>>> be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable >>>> LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the >>>> new display to the board... >>>> >>>> Maybe it would work? >>>> >>>> Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, >>>> but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or >>>> weak tubes... >>>> >>>> Here is the page: >>>> >> ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf >>>> < >> ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf >>>> >>>> John :-#)# >>>>
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com <http://flippers.com> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
I'll send one 9010 that I have as a spare to him. This way, He can make the appropriate measurements and design a board that fits on a regular 9010. JL On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 6:24 PM John Robertson via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
He sent me this picture.
That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the future if they ever fail...
Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if he can answer that...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: > I know him, he is a very nice guy. > > I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have > interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group. > > > JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
John :-#)#
> > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones <tony@tonyjones.com> escreveu: > >> I assume you guys saw this: >> >>
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443...
>> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < >> techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: >> >>> I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but >>> they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT >> Source, >>> the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at >> ~$21.14 >>> each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark. >>> >>> Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were >> lower >>> cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of >> that >>> display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a >> quote. >>> So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine >>> type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone >> know >>> if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A >> of >>> draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V >>> supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power >>> to the VFD. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> --Brad >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <
techtoolslist@flippers.com>
>>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? >>> >>> On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote: >>>> There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays >>>> available (at least that I could find) that would work here without >>>> being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron >>>> graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, >>>> and don't appear readily available either. >>>> >>>> I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 >>>> character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to >>>> be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that >>>> may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may >>>> not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but >>>> anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But >>>> no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed >>>> to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into >>>> character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD
module.
>>>> >>>> In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able >>>> on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. >From the >>>> schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock >>>> (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive >>>> shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and >>>> data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive
shift
>>>> registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, >>>> then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character >>>> positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD >>>> character flicker to a minimum. >>>> Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I >>>> can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't >>>> remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped >>>> to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues >>>> and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind >>>> working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out. >>>> >>>> --Brad >>> I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will >>> fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each: >>> >>> >>> >>
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
>>> 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 >>> inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" >>> fluorescent digit. >>> >>> They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available. >>> >>> Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix >>> considering the 9010 is worthless without a display... >>> >>> John :-#)# >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> >>>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com
>>>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM >>>> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? >>>> >>>> I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, >> then >>>> I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it >>>> would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit >>>> alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that >> would >>>> be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable >>>> LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the >>>> new display to the board... >>>> >>>> Maybe it would work? >>>> >>>> Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, >>>> but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or >>>> weak tubes... >>>> >>>> Here is the page: >>>> >>
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
>>>> < >>
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
>>>> >>>> John :-#)# >>>>
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com <http://flippers.com> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2022/12/05 3:10 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I'll send one 9010 that I have as a spare to him. This way, He can make the appropriate measurements and design a board that fits on a regular 9010.
JL
Hi Jose, Did your friend ever get the 9010 displays ready for sale? Thanks! John :-#)#
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 6:24 PM John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: > He sent me this picture.
That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the future if they ever fail...
Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if he can answer that...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
> > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins > <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu: > > He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD > modules. > > I'll call him later to ask for the update. > > > JL > > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist > <techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu: > > On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: > > I know him, he is a very nice guy. > > > > I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys > have > > interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this > group. > > > > > > JL > > Thanks for the info. > > Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 > display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a > display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED. > > John :-#)# > > > > > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones > <tony@tonyjones.com> escreveu: > > > >> I assume you guys saw this: > >> > >> > https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443... > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < > >> techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of > the cost, but > >>> they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. > From UT > >> Source, > >>> the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an > LCD, but at > >> ~$21.14 > >>> each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark. > >>> > >>> Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display > if red were > >> lower > >>> cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram > version of > >> that > >>> display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. > Awaiting a > >> quote. > >>> So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board > with a mezzanine > >>> type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the > board? Anyone > >> know > >>> if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up > to another 1A > >> of > >>> draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to > create a new 5V > >>> supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used > to provide power > >>> to the VFD. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> --Brad > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > >>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > >>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> > >>> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement > LED display? > >>> > >>> On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote: > >>>> There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED > displays > >>>> available (at least that I could find) that would work > here without > >>>> being much too large for the space. There are a couple > Noritake Itron > >>>> graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be > expensive, > >>>> and don't appear readily available either. > >>>> > >>>> I think what might be a workable approach would be to use > a 40x1 > >>>> character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. > There seem to > >>>> be a couple models pretty readily available on the > surplus market that > >>>> may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays > may or may > >>>> not support "inverted" displays (light text on black > background), but > >>>> anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum > display! But > >>>> no matter what the approach, additional design effort > would be needed > >>>> to capture the segment drive data for each character, > decode it into > >>>> character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module. > >>>> > >>>> In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be > retrofit-able > >>>> on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. > >From the > >>>> schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off > character clock > >>>> (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the > character drive > >>>> shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or > U14 pin 3) and > >>>> data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift > >>>> registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or > custom) characters, > >>>> then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD > character > >>>> positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to > keep the LCD > >>>> character flicker to a minimum. > >>>> Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As > near as I > >>>> can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I > honestly don't > >>>> remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need > to be mapped > >>>> to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with > other life issues > >>>> and away from the bench for much too long now, but > wouldn't mind > >>>> working at this a bit if there were others interested in > helping out. > >>>> > >>>> --Brad > >>> I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display > module, that will > >>> fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost > around $36US each: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri... > >>> 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space > is around 6.75 > >>> inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" > >>> fluorescent digit. > >>> > >>> They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined > characters available. > >>> > >>> Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a > worthwhile fix > >>> considering the 9010 is worthless without a display... > >>> > >>> John :-#)# > >>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" > <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > >>>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> > >>>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM > >>>> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED > display? > >>>> > >>>> I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube > is missing, > >> then > >>>> I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it > looks like it > >>>> would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit > >>>> alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and > all that > >> would > >>>> be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers > with suitable > >>>> LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and > then mount the > >>>> new display to the board... > >>>> > >>>> Maybe it would work? > >>>> > >>>> Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have > no free time, > >>>> but I know there are folks out there looking for a > solution to bad or > >>>> weak tubes... > >>>> > >>>> Here is the page: > >>>> > >> > ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf > >>>> < > >> > ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf > >>>> > >>>> John :-#)# > >>>> >
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site 2005-Current: https://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ Vectorlist Archives 1997/99 - 2016: https://www.vectorlist.org/
Would love to have a spare display option. Please keep us updated. Best Regards, Bill
On Feb 8, 2024, at 6:42 PM, John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 3:10 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I'll send one 9010 that I have as a spare to him. This way, He can make the appropriate measurements and design a board that fits on a regular 9010.
JL
Hi Jose,
Did your friend ever get the 9010 displays ready for sale?
Thanks!
John :-#)#
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 6:24 PM John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
He sent me this picture.
That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the future if they ever fail...
Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if he can answer that...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via
Techtoolslist
<techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: > I know him, he is a very nice guy. > > I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If
you guys
have > interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount
for this
group. > > > JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the
Itron fg326
display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing
turning up a
display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED
Hi Bill, Thanks for thinking of me. I’d be in on one too. Keep me posted if this happens. Regards, John
On Feb 9, 2024, at 6:40 AM, Bill Karkula <wkarkula@comcast.net> wrote:
Would love to have a spare display option. Please keep us updated.
Best Regards,
Bill
On Feb 8, 2024, at 6:42 PM, John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 3:10 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote: I'll send one 9010 that I have as a spare to him. This way, He can make the appropriate measurements and design a board that fits on a regular 9010.
JL
Hi Jose,
Did your friend ever get the 9010 displays ready for sale?
Thanks!
John :-#)#
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 6:24 PM John Robertson via Techtoolslist <techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
He sent me this picture.
That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the future if they ever fail...
Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if he can answer that...
Thanks!
John :-#)#
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins <joseluizmartins@gmail.com> escreveu:
He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD modules.
I'll call him later to ask for the update.
JL
Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via
Techtoolslist
<techtoolslist@flippers.com> escreveu:
On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
I know him, he is a very nice guy.
I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys have interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this group.
JL
Thanks for the info.
Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326 display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site 2005-Current: https://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ Vectorlist Archives 1997/99 - 2016: https://www.vectorlist.org/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment Archive site 2005-Current: https://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ Vectorlist Archives 1997/99 - 2016: https://www.vectorlist.org/
Yep, I did, as well as the redesign efforts in another thread. Since the VFD's in the 9005/9010's will eventually fail given enough time, handling, or use, my approach was simply to discuss a retrofit of the VFD to something non-VFD. Not to mention that itron displays are still VFD tech, hard to come by (even in-production itron P/N's can be difficult to source), and still have the issues of being a VFD. For me, right now it's mostly a "thought exercise" at this point. I'm willing to look at it deeper, and if there were interest, would certainly participate in larger effort or appreciate help moving it forward. Otherwise, it's quite likely not to make it past the "thought exercise" stage with me :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Jones" <tony@tonyjones.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2022 1:52:53 PM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display? I assume you guys saw this: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-443... On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of the cost, but they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. From UT Source, the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an LCD, but at ~$21.14 each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display if red were lower cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram version of that display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. Awaiting a quote.
So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board with a mezzanine type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the board? Anyone know if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up to another 1A of draw (worst case)? I suspect the safest bet would be to create a new 5V supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used to provide power to the VFD.
Thanks,
--Brad
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED displays available (at least that I could find) that would work here without being much too large for the space. There are a couple Noritake Itron graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be expensive, and don't appear readily available either.
I think what might be a workable approach would be to use a 40x1 character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight. There seem to be a couple models pretty readily available on the surplus market that may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays may or may not support "inverted" displays (light text on black background), but anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum display! But no matter what the approach, additional design effort would be needed to capture the segment drive data for each character, decode it into character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be retrofit-able on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship. From the schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off character clock (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the character drive shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or U14 pin 3) and data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or custom) characters, then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD character positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to keep the LCD character flicker to a minimum. Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As near as I can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I honestly don't remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need to be mapped to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with other life issues and away from the bench for much too long now, but wouldn't mind working at this a bit if there were others interested in helping out.
--Brad
I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display module, that will fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost around $36US each:
https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matri...
8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space is around 6.75 inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3" fluorescent digit.
They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined characters available.
Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a worthwhile fix considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
John :-#)#
----- Original Message ----- From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?
I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube is missing, then I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it looks like it would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and all that would be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers with suitable LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and then mount the new display to the board...
Maybe it would work?
Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have no free time, but I know there are folks out there looking for a solution to bad or weak tubes...
Here is the page:
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
< ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
John :-#)#
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On Mon, Dec 5, 2022, 12:40 PM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist < techtoolslist@flippers.com> wrote:
Since the VFD's in the 9005/9010's will eventually fail given enough time, handling, or use, my approach was simply to discuss a retrofit of the VFD to something non-VFD.
Not to mention that itron displays are still VFD tech, hard to come by (even in-production itron P/N's can be difficult to source), and still have the issues of being a VFD.
A new production VFD should last a considerable time. Comparing one to an original Fluke unit from the 80s seems misplaced. I don't disagree that they are hard(er) to find and quite expensive but you retain "the look" of the original. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
participants (8)
-
Bill Karkula -
Brad Gass -
Brad Gass via Techtoolslist -
John Glagola -
John Robertson via Techtoolslist
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Jose Luiz Martins -
Tony Jones -
William Stillwell