RE: Z80 pods, 2 versions...
Disclaimers: 1. I thought about this overnight in order to compose this reply. 2. I have great respect for John's experience and knowledge. 3. I have received emails on this topic, so am not speaking solely from my own perspective.
From: John Robertson[SMTP:jrr@flippers.com]
Well, what would you like me to do? I send out lots of email looking for one unit, and several come back with various assortment of units and pods that they want to sell as a set.
I don't know. I guess I expected something different from this list. Perhaps I thought it would be similar to the vector and raster list (from which this list sprung, vaguely) where interesting items are offered to members before being sent to ebay (a dirty enough word in itself).
They do not like breaking up sets. I have made private trades with folks for these, plus I have sold some off. We have a business here to run, and I need to make money to support it.
Sounds exactly what an amateur (we all know the etymology of that word) would do. Sometimes you have to take in more than you need.
So I buy them wholesale, then I see that some on eBay went for a fair dollar, I should give them away?
That's where our paths would start to diverge.
I bought a bunch of damaged probes and am fixing them up, should I not profit from this service?
Certainly, but why not from some of the very people that joined this list in order to discuss, discover and collect these same tools? Or offer some of the broken ones that you don't want to fix. We know that your time is money. Only you can determine when you are losing profit by working on a pod vs another game that you should get out. I've been attempting to retrieve some of the archives of this list, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever seen any of your pods for sale or auction. I also wish that I could retrieve the charter for this list. It's slipped my mind what the full intent was.
I bought a bunch of Z80 pods in various states, so I fix them and test them. Again, should I not do what my skills enable me to do? This is MY livelihood!
Once again, no argument. You, Ray Johnson, G. Stair, E. Spain (marginal), and others are all invaluable professional resources. Clay Cowgill is on the fence and he has his own detractors. Then there are the hobbyists, many with similar and varied skills. There just seems to be two separate factions in each of these lists. Maybe it's never been spoken out loud, but believe me, I know that they exist now. Let me reiterate: You are an exceptional resource. I have been fortunate enough to visit your shop. I have seen the voluminous reference materials. I have discussed with you some of the rare and obsolete platforms that you still support. I have drooled over your drool-worthy racks of PCBs, parts and machines. And I gladly bought the ESR and FBT tester kits. But you're not a hobbyist. I'm not picking up any harsh resentment from others, just a feeling of dismay. It's too bad that this "collection of pods" (5, 15, 50?) isn't spread around the list members. It also means that they are in the hands of the high bidders and, because they were so dearly bought, likely won't come back on the market. Dismaying. That's all I have to say on this. You're a businessman, I don't think your feelings will be hurt. I'm a hobbyist, I'll keep pegging away in my little basement workshop and scrounging for the deals. Your compatriot, nonetheless, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
If you want to encourage open exchange of ideas & member support I guess we need to do more of it on this list. Yes I've salivated over the Fluke 9010s and wanted one for years but I've yet to fork out the $ required to own one. I've been trying to learn about the PICs. Seems like there is a big effort to produce hobbiest style troubleshooting tools that are pretty powerful. There is a Cap tester project and a frequency counter, with free plans & source code available on the net as well as other projects such as a digital workbench (power supply, signal generator, Digital Storage scope etc..) I'm currently working on the frequency counter & hope to report back my success or failure soon. Kev
I'm not picking up any harsh resentment from others, just a feeling of dismay. It's too bad that this "collection of pods" (5, 15, 50?) isn't spread
around
the list members. It also means that they are in the hands of the high bidders and, because they were so dearly bought, likely won't come back on the market. Dismaying.
That's all I have to say on this. You're a businessman, I don't think your
feelings will be hurt. I'm a hobbyist, I'll keep pegging away in my little basement workshop and scrounging for the deals.
Your compatriot, nonetheless, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com
To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
John, You certainly have my vote for you too continue hosting this list. I realize your goal with the 9010s is to make money while some other list members may only be to pursue a hobby but I think your expertise would be sorely missed. I'm sure the hobbiest members have other usefull talents. If they really want equipment that they can't afford to pay E-bay prices for then they should be able to exchange labor or something else for them. FWIW affordable 9010s aren't that hard to find! I've bought three of them in the last month. Two of them cost $20 each for just the console (both needed minor reapirs). The other cost $25 with three pods. If you really want an affordable 9010 (or anything else for that matter) get off of E-bay and go look for one! I really don't have any sympathy for people that don't make any effort to look any further than E-bay for what they want but then whine about the prices. If that offends anyone then so sorry! Joe At 10:09 AM 3/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
Keith has a number of points here that I think need exploring.
Charter...? charter..hmmm..I KNEW I forgot to do something...
As a dealer, should I be running this list? I have wondered about the conflict of interest that is possible here, I started the list because I am constantly looking for ways to improve my service tools, and felt that by spreading the knowledge of the tools, I could gain something in return. I did NOT intend it to be a sales area for my shop, and that was one reason I never posted FS: stuff here. It is for that reason that I sell on eBay, to avoid conflict of interest and keep the two areas separate. I am happy to spread service info around, but I need to make a living at sales (it ain't much, but it's a job I love).
And, true, this is not a hobby any more (I used to collect 1920's radios was how this all started - there is a thread...how did you get into this?), I never seem to have time to build anything anymore. I have designs, but no finish (Like my design to replace the System 1/80 audio boards 6530's) time...the business has taken over my life (mortgage etc.). Sigh.
I want to keep this friendly too. So if my words yesterday seemed harsh, I apologize.
So, I guess, I would like a rough tally of votes on should I continue to host this or turn it over to someone else? I don't have a problem with that at all, no offense, etc. So please LMK. (I think there is at least one other technical mail list floating around, saw a reference to one in a search on google.)
John :-#)#
At 08:39 AM 3/15/2000 -0600, Keith, Brendan wrote:
Disclaimers: 1. I thought about this overnight in order to compose this reply. 2. I have great respect for John's experience and knowledge. 3. I have received emails on this topic, so am not speaking solely from my own perspective.
From: John Robertson[SMTP:jrr@flippers.com]
Well, what would you like me to do? I send out lots of email looking for one unit, and several come back with various assortment of units and pods that they want to sell as a set.
I don't know. I guess I expected something different from this list. Perhaps I thought it would be similar to the vector and raster list (from which this list sprung, vaguely) where interesting items are offered to members before being sent to ebay (a dirty enough word in itself).
They do not like breaking up sets. I have made private trades with folks for these, plus I have sold some off. We have a business here to run, and I need to make money to support it.
Sounds exactly what an amateur (we all know the etymology of that word) would do. Sometimes you have to take in more than you need.
So I buy them wholesale, then I see that some on eBay went for a fair dollar, I should give them away?
That's where our paths would start to diverge.
I bought a bunch of damaged probes and am fixing them up, should I not profit from this service?
Certainly, but why not from some of the very people that joined this list in order to discuss, discover and collect these same tools? Or offer some of the broken ones that you don't want to fix. We know that your time is money. Only you can determine when you are losing profit by working on a pod vs another game that you should get out.
I've been attempting to retrieve some of the archives of this list, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever seen any of your pods for sale or auction. I also wish that I could retrieve the charter for this list. It's slipped my mind what the full intent was.
I bought a bunch of Z80 pods in various states, so I fix them and test them. Again, should I not do what my skills enable me to do? This is MY livelihood!
Once again, no argument. You, Ray Johnson, G. Stair, E. Spain (marginal), and others are all invaluable professional resources. Clay Cowgill is on the fence and he has his own detractors. Then there are the hobbyists, many with similar and varied skills. There just seems to be two separate factions in each of these lists. Maybe it's never been spoken out loud, but believe me, I know that they exist now.
Let me reiterate: You are an exceptional resource. I have been fortunate enough to visit your shop. I have seen the voluminous reference materials. I have discussed with you some of the rare and obsolete platforms that you still support. I have drooled over your drool-worthy racks of PCBs, parts and machines. And I gladly bought the ESR and FBT tester kits. But you're not a hobbyist.
I'm not picking up any harsh resentment from others, just a feeling of dismay. It's too bad that this "collection of pods" (5, 15, 50?) isn't spread around the list members. It also means that they are in the hands of the high bidders and, because they were so dearly bought, likely won't come back on the market. Dismaying.
That's all I have to say on this. You're a businessman, I don't think your
feelings will be hurt. I'm a hobbyist, I'll keep pegging away in my little basement workshop and scrounging for the deals.
Your compatriot, nonetheless, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com
To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John has a vote from me too. Now how do we get the S/N ratio up?
FWIW affordable 9010s aren't that hard to find! I've bought three of them in the last month. Two of them cost $20 each for just the console (both needed minor reapirs). The other cost $25 with three pods. If you really want an affordable 9010 (or anything else for that matter) get off of E-bay and go look for one! I really don't have any sympathy for people that don't make any effort to look any further than E-bay for what they want but then whine about the prices. If that offends anyone then so sorry!
Just curious, are those deals you found thru the net or elsewhere? Kev To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
Yes, I agree. John you should definitely leave the list as it is. Joe wrote:
John,
You certainly have my vote for you too continue hosting this list. I realize your goal with the 9010s is to make money while some other list members may only be to pursue a hobby but I think your expertise would be sorely missed. I'm sure the hobbiest members have other usefull talents. If they really want equipment that they can't afford to pay E-bay prices for then they should be able to exchange labor or something else for them.
FWIW affordable 9010s aren't that hard to find! I've bought three of them in the last month. Two of them cost $20 each for just the console (both needed minor reapirs). The other cost $25 with three pods. If you really want an affordable 9010 (or anything else for that matter) get off of E-bay and go look for one! I really don't have any sympathy for people that don't make any effort to look any further than E-bay for what they want but then whine about the prices. If that offends anyone then so sorry!
Joe
At 10:09 AM 3/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
Keith has a number of points here that I think need exploring.
Charter...? charter..hmmm..I KNEW I forgot to do something...
As a dealer, should I be running this list? I have wondered about the conflict of interest that is possible here, I started the list because I am constantly looking for ways to improve my service tools, and felt that by spreading the knowledge of the tools, I could gain something in return. I did NOT intend it to be a sales area for my shop, and that was one reason I never posted FS: stuff here. It is for that reason that I sell on eBay, to avoid conflict of interest and keep the two areas separate. I am happy to spread service info around, but I need to make a living at sales (it ain't much, but it's a job I love).
And, true, this is not a hobby any more (I used to collect 1920's radios was how this all started - there is a thread...how did you get into this?), I never seem to have time to build anything anymore. I have designs, but no finish (Like my design to replace the System 1/80 audio boards 6530's) time...the business has taken over my life (mortgage etc.). Sigh.
I want to keep this friendly too. So if my words yesterday seemed harsh, I apologize.
So, I guess, I would like a rough tally of votes on should I continue to host this or turn it over to someone else? I don't have a problem with that at all, no offense, etc. So please LMK. (I think there is at least one other technical mail list floating around, saw a reference to one in a search on google.)
John :-#)#
At 08:39 AM 3/15/2000 -0600, Keith, Brendan wrote:
Disclaimers: 1. I thought about this overnight in order to compose this reply. 2. I have great respect for John's experience and knowledge. 3. I have received emails on this topic, so am not speaking solely from my own perspective.
From: John Robertson[SMTP:jrr@flippers.com]
Well, what would you like me to do? I send out lots of email looking for one unit, and several come back with various assortment of units and pods that they want to sell as a set.
I don't know. I guess I expected something different from this list. Perhaps I thought it would be similar to the vector and raster list (from which this list sprung, vaguely) where interesting items are offered to members before being sent to ebay (a dirty enough word in itself).
They do not like breaking up sets. I have made private trades with folks for these, plus I have sold some off. We have a business here to run, and I need to make money to support it.
Sounds exactly what an amateur (we all know the etymology of that word) would do. Sometimes you have to take in more than you need.
So I buy them wholesale, then I see that some on eBay went for a fair dollar, I should give them away?
That's where our paths would start to diverge.
I bought a bunch of damaged probes and am fixing them up, should I not profit from this service?
Certainly, but why not from some of the very people that joined this list in order to discuss, discover and collect these same tools? Or offer some of the broken ones that you don't want to fix. We know that your time is money. Only you can determine when you are losing profit by working on a pod vs another game that you should get out.
I've been attempting to retrieve some of the archives of this list, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever seen any of your pods for sale or auction. I also wish that I could retrieve the charter for this list. It's slipped my mind what the full intent was.
I bought a bunch of Z80 pods in various states, so I fix them and test them. Again, should I not do what my skills enable me to do? This is MY livelihood!
Once again, no argument. You, Ray Johnson, G. Stair, E. Spain (marginal), and others are all invaluable professional resources. Clay Cowgill is on the fence and he has his own detractors. Then there are the hobbyists, many with similar and varied skills. There just seems to be two separate factions in each of these lists. Maybe it's never been spoken out loud, but believe me, I know that they exist now.
Let me reiterate: You are an exceptional resource. I have been fortunate enough to visit your shop. I have seen the voluminous reference materials. I have discussed with you some of the rare and obsolete platforms that you still support. I have drooled over your drool-worthy racks of PCBs, parts and machines. And I gladly bought the ESR and FBT tester kits. But you're not a hobbyist.
I'm not picking up any harsh resentment from others, just a feeling of dismay. It's too bad that this "collection of pods" (5, 15, 50?) isn't spread around the list members. It also means that they are in the hands of the high bidders and, because they were so dearly bought, likely won't come back on the market. Dismaying.
That's all I have to say on this. You're a businessman, I don't think your
feelings will be hurt. I'm a hobbyist, I'll keep pegging away in my little basement workshop and scrounging for the deals.
Your compatriot, nonetheless, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com
To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I'm not too worried either. I say don't change anything. Matt _____________________________________________________________________ On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Jess Askey wrote:
Yes, I agree. John you should definitely leave the list as it is.
Joe wrote:
John,
You certainly have my vote for you too continue hosting this list. I realize your goal with the 9010s is to make money while some other list members may only be to pursue a hobby but I think your expertise would be sorely missed. I'm sure the hobbiest members have other usefull talents. If they really want equipment that they can't afford to pay E-bay prices for then they should be able to exchange labor or something else for them.
FWIW affordable 9010s aren't that hard to find! I've bought three of them in the last month. Two of them cost $20 each for just the console (both needed minor reapirs). The other cost $25 with three pods. If you really want an affordable 9010 (or anything else for that matter) get off of E-bay and go look for one! I really don't have any sympathy for people that don't make any effort to look any further than E-bay for what they want but then whine about the prices. If that offends anyone then so sorry!
Joe
At 10:09 AM 3/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
Keith has a number of points here that I think need exploring.
Charter...? charter..hmmm..I KNEW I forgot to do something...
As a dealer, should I be running this list? I have wondered about the conflict of interest that is possible here, I started the list because I am constantly looking for ways to improve my service tools, and felt that by spreading the knowledge of the tools, I could gain something in return. I did NOT intend it to be a sales area for my shop, and that was one reason I never posted FS: stuff here. It is for that reason that I sell on eBay, to avoid conflict of interest and keep the two areas separate. I am happy to spread service info around, but I need to make a living at sales (it ain't much, but it's a job I love).
And, true, this is not a hobby any more (I used to collect 1920's radios was how this all started - there is a thread...how did you get into this?), I never seem to have time to build anything anymore. I have designs, but no finish (Like my design to replace the System 1/80 audio boards 6530's) time...the business has taken over my life (mortgage etc.). Sigh.
I want to keep this friendly too. So if my words yesterday seemed harsh, I apologize.
So, I guess, I would like a rough tally of votes on should I continue to host this or turn it over to someone else? I don't have a problem with that at all, no offense, etc. So please LMK. (I think there is at least one other technical mail list floating around, saw a reference to one in a search on google.)
John :-#)#
At 08:39 AM 3/15/2000 -0600, Keith, Brendan wrote:
Disclaimers: 1. I thought about this overnight in order to compose this reply. 2. I have great respect for John's experience and knowledge. 3. I have received emails on this topic, so am not speaking solely from my own perspective.
From: John Robertson[SMTP:jrr@flippers.com]
Well, what would you like me to do? I send out lots of email looking for one unit, and several come back with various assortment of units and pods that they want to sell as a set.
I don't know. I guess I expected something different from this list. Perhaps I thought it would be similar to the vector and raster list (from which this list sprung, vaguely) where interesting items are offered to members before being sent to ebay (a dirty enough word in itself).
They do not like breaking up sets. I have made private trades with folks for these, plus I have sold some off. We have a business here to run, and I need to make money to support it.
Sounds exactly what an amateur (we all know the etymology of that word) would do. Sometimes you have to take in more than you need.
So I buy them wholesale, then I see that some on eBay went for a fair dollar, I should give them away?
That's where our paths would start to diverge.
I bought a bunch of damaged probes and am fixing them up, should I not profit from this service?
Certainly, but why not from some of the very people that joined this list in order to discuss, discover and collect these same tools? Or offer some of the broken ones that you don't want to fix. We know that your time is money. Only you can determine when you are losing profit by working on a pod vs another game that you should get out.
I've been attempting to retrieve some of the archives of this list, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've ever seen any of your pods for sale or auction. I also wish that I could retrieve the charter for this list. It's slipped my mind what the full intent was.
I bought a bunch of Z80 pods in various states, so I fix them and test them. Again, should I not do what my skills enable me to do? This is MY livelihood!
Once again, no argument. You, Ray Johnson, G. Stair, E. Spain (marginal), and others are all invaluable professional resources. Clay Cowgill is on the fence and he has his own detractors. Then there are the hobbyists, many with similar and varied skills. There just seems to be two separate factions in each of these lists. Maybe it's never been spoken out loud, but believe me, I know that they exist now.
Let me reiterate: You are an exceptional resource. I have been fortunate enough to visit your shop. I have seen the voluminous reference materials. I have discussed with you some of the rare and obsolete platforms that you still support. I have drooled over your drool-worthy racks of PCBs, parts and machines. And I gladly bought the ESR and FBT tester kits. But you're not a hobbyist.
I'm not picking up any harsh resentment from others, just a feeling of dismay. It's too bad that this "collection of pods" (5, 15, 50?) isn't spread around the list members. It also means that they are in the hands of the high bidders and, because they were so dearly bought, likely won't come back on the market. Dismaying.
That's all I have to say on this. You're a businessman, I don't think your
feelings will be hurt. I'm a hobbyist, I'll keep pegging away in my little basement workshop and scrounging for the deals.
Your compatriot, nonetheless, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com
To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John, You da man!!!! (read: please continue to host this list...) Noel To UNSUBSCRIBE from techtoolslist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the message body to: techtoolslist-request@flippers.com. Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to jrr@flippers.com.
participants (7)
-
Jess Askey -
Joe -
John Robertson -
Keith, Brendan -
Kev -
Matt Rossiter - Verio Southern California -
Noel Johnson