Fluke 9100/6800pod and bally mpu help needed.
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working. So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing. Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test) Can someone point out something really obvious? Cheers Steve _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing. Read the address stored in $FFFE and $FFFF. The reset vector is stored there, which is the address the CPU jumps to on reset. If you run UUT to that address, it will do the same process as on your test bench.
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working.
So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test)
Can someone point out something really obvious?
Cheers Steve
"Run UUT" requires you to either accept the default boot location (recommended!) or enter it by hand. Your choices (1000h or 5000h) are not the boot location the CPU is looking for in the ROM code, if I remember correctly the boot location for a 6800 is something like FFFEh or FFFCh - its in the manufacturers guide to the CPU in question. Best to simply power down the UUT, then power down the 9010, then power the 9010 back up and then the UUT and then do the "Run UUT" and press "Enter" twice without adding anything else. Should work if it works for the original CPU. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
Thanks John, As Corey pointed out the start location is stored at the locations you specified. From this I found 58e1 to be the start location. When I try starting from this location it still wont boot so I guess as Macro has pointed out it may just be hard luck. It is a 9100ft that I am using and when I view the boot rom everything prior to location 5800 is FF so I tried starting at 5800 as well but still no go. Shame as I wanted to write a program specific to the bally MPU. But atleast the mpu board works with a real CPU in it now. Thanks everyone for your help. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100/6800pod and bally mpu help needed.
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working.
So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test)
Can someone point out something really obvious?
Cheers Steve
"Run UUT" requires you to either accept the default boot location (recommended!) or enter it by hand.
Your choices (1000h or 5000h) are not the boot location the CPU is looking for in the ROM code, if I remember correctly the boot location for a 6800 is something like FFFEh or FFFCh - its in the manufacturers guide to the CPU in question.
Best to simply power down the UUT, then power down the 9010, then power the 9010 back up and then the UUT and then do the "Run UUT" and press "Enter" twice without adding anything else. Should work if it works for the original CPU.
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
Thanks John, I tried what you and Corey have kindly suggested. From this I found 58e1 to be the start location. When I try starting from this location it still wont boot so I guess as Macro has pointed out it may just be hard luck. It is a 9100ft that I am using and when I view the boot rom everything prior to location 5800 is FF so I tried starting at 5800 as well but still no go. Shame as I wanted to write a program specific to the bally MPU. But at least the mpu board works with a real CPU in it now. Thanks everyone for your help. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100/6800pod and bally mpu help needed.
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working.
So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test)
Can someone point out something really obvious?
Cheers Steve
"Run UUT" requires you to either accept the default boot location (recommended!) or enter it by hand.
Your choices (1000h or 5000h) are not the boot location the CPU is looking for in the ROM code, if I remember correctly the boot location for a 6800 is something like FFFEh or FFFCh - its in the manufacturers guide to the CPU in question.
Best to simply power down the UUT, then power down the 9010, then power the 9010 back up and then the UUT and then do the "Run UUT" and press "Enter" twice without adding anything else. Should work if it works for the original CPU.
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
Hi Steve, While a PITA, I don't think it's too uncommon. I have a Z80 based board on the bench right now that will do all the usual troubleshooting stuff and now I've fixed it, work with a normal CPU, however the run UUT simply won't do squat. Martin. On 7 Oct 2008, at 20:11, <mail@nessandsteve.plus.com> <mail@nessandsteve.plus.com
wrote:
Thanks John, I tried what you and Corey have kindly suggested. From this I found 58e1 to be the start location. When I try starting from this location it still wont boot so I guess as Macro has pointed out it may just be hard luck. It is a 9100ft that I am using and when I view the boot rom everything prior to location 5800 is FF so I tried starting at 5800 as well but still no go. Shame as I wanted to write a program specific to the bally MPU. But at least the mpu board works with a real CPU in it now.
Thanks everyone for your help. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100/6800pod and bally mpu help needed.
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working.
So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test)
Can someone point out something really obvious?
Cheers Steve
"Run UUT" requires you to either accept the default boot location (recommended!) or enter it by hand.
Your choices (1000h or 5000h) are not the boot location the CPU is looking for in the ROM code, if I remember correctly the boot location for a 6800 is something like FFFEh or FFFCh - its in the manufacturers guide to the CPU in question.
Best to simply power down the UUT, then power down the 9010, then power the 9010 back up and then the UUT and then do the "Run UUT" and press "Enter" twice without adding anything else. Should work if it works for the original CPU.
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
martin@guddler.co.uk wrote:
Hi Steve,
While a PITA, I don't think it's too uncommon. I have a Z80 based board on the bench right now that will do all the usual troubleshooting stuff and now I've fixed it, work with a normal CPU, however the run UUT simply won't do squat.
Martin. How fast is the Z80 on your UUT? The regular Z80 pod is the slowest, there is a faster one with a Z80A, and then the fastest is the Z80QT pod.
I checked the differences between the Z80 and Z80AA pod and all I could see what they stuffed in the faster (Z80A) CPU!. Of course you want to look into the more expensive twisted pair cable for the faster CPUs as you may be introducing additional electronic/electrical noise into the system if the CPU wires are not shielded... John :-#)#
On 7 Oct 2008, at 20:11, <mail@nessandsteve.plus.com> <mail@nessandsteve.plus.com> wrote:
Thanks John, I tried what you and Corey have kindly suggested. From this I found 58e1 to be the start location. When I try starting from this location it still wont boot so I guess as Macro has pointed out it may just be hard luck. It is a 9100ft that I am using and when I view the boot rom everything prior to location 5800 is FF so I tried starting at 5800 as well but still no go. Shame as I wanted to write a program specific to the bally MPU. But at least the mpu board works with a real CPU in it now.
Thanks everyone for your help. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Robertson" <jrr@flippers.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100/6800pod and bally mpu help needed.
mail@nessandsteve.plus.com wrote:
Hello all, I am hoping someone can help me out. Let me start by describing what has lead me to this: I receive a Bally MPU board P# r2518-35 (Star Trek) that needs repairing. I hook up the fluke and boot it up and get a bad clock error. I notice someone has replaced the 74s37 with a 74LS00, so replcing it restores the clock. I "Run UUT" and the status LED stays on. I check the jumpers and find that 2 are wired incorrectly so I set them right and and I still get nothing. After much head scratching and checking various things with a scope I couldn't see a problem. I replace the cpu and its socket with a spare and it starts the self test process. I continue on and it gets snagged on each step so replacing the sockets on the RAM and PIA at U8 and U11 gets me to the second to last test which failed due to a broken lead on c16. Replacing restored it to fully working.
So the MPU board is now completetly working on the bench but if I use my fluke it will not start the self test process. I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
Just to be sure it was not a pod failure I tried a NOS one from the shelf and got the same effect. (Both pods pass self test)
Can someone point out something really obvious?
Cheers Steve
"Run UUT" requires you to either accept the default boot location (recommended!) or enter it by hand.
Your choices (1000h or 5000h) are not the boot location the CPU is looking for in the ROM code, if I remember correctly the boot location for a 6800 is something like FFFEh or FFFCh - its in the manufacturers guide to the CPU in question.
Best to simply power down the UUT, then power down the 9010, then power the 9010 back up and then the UUT and then do the "Run UUT" and press "Enter" twice without adding anything else. Should work if it works for the original CPU.
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
The hope is folks would like to talk about their scripts - post snippets of special interest - and revive some interest in this tool. With the current economic times I see that repairs will be a larger portion of peoples interest and that how quickly we can fix older 8 or 16 bit equipment (think industrial controls) can help all of us cruise through the next couple of years... I am thinking of snippets of scripts for testing PIAs and, being a bit on the lazy side, I'm hoping someone has made a script for a PIA that is irritating me right now: the 6532. This rascal has RAM/I-O/TIMER all in one. RAM is trivial as is the I/O (more or less), but the timer...grump...I just don't have enough time to make a test without too much scratching my head (lose too much hair this way). So the question is, are people interested in sharing on TTL? I will save the snippets to the FTP site. John :-#)# _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
Well, I wrote some very small scripts that might be handy if you want to modify them. One is a script that allows you send data to the Atari POKEYs based on the CAT box procedures. It toggles the different channels on and off alot easier, but I just get white noise and not actual "tones" like I'd expect. I'm not much of a programmer but maybe it can be useful. http://games.rossiters.com/manuals/Pokey-Data-Blaster While we are on the subject of writing stuff, I haven't been able to find anywhere procedures for doing signature analysis on Star Wars, so I wired up a 6809E nop fixture and documented signatures myself. What I'd love to do is figure out a procedure for doing signature analysis on the Mathbox portion. I'm wondering if this can easily be done by grounding the diag test point and setting the dipswitches a certain way? Just wondering if someone has already done this? Anyway, I can do a separate thread about that some time. I too would be interested in some new fluke scripts. Matt On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 12:02:31 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:
The hope is folks would like to talk about their scripts - post snippets of special interest - and revive some interest in this tool. With the current economic times I see that repairs will be a larger portion of peoples interest and that how quickly we can fix older 8 or 16 bit equipment (think industrial controls) can help all of us cruise through the next couple of years...
I am thinking of snippets of scripts for testing PIAs and, being a bit on the lazy side, I'm hoping someone has made a script for a PIA that is irritating me right now: the 6532. This rascal has RAM/I-O/TIMER all in one. RAM is trivial as is the I/O (more or less), but the timer...grump...I just don't have enough time to make a test without too much scratching my head (lose too much hair this way).
So the question is, are people interested in sharing on TTL? I will save the snippets to the FTP site.
John :-#)# _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
On Oct 8, 2008, at 12:02 PM, John Robertson wrote in thread "Fluke scripts...":
With the current economic times I see that repairs will be a larger portion of peoples interest and that how quickly we can fix older 8 or 16 bit equipment (think industrial controls) can help all of us cruise through the next couple of years...
I'm in that mode - attempting to resurrect an old HP 5420 Digital Signal Analyzer (aka spectrum analyzer, albeit low frequency) to save a couple of thou on the purchase of a used equivalent. I'm trying to find Vol IV of the documentation set that has the schematics for the beast as well an image of the control tape - the unit boots from an internal tape. The cassette bands have gone south, the cassette capstans have turned to goo, and it looks like the tapes themselves are failing. Any help or referrals will be welcomed. CRC _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
I have tried starting the "Run UUT" from address $1000 and $5000 as I believe this to be the address for each ROM but still nothing.
I have a gaelco world rally PCB that will not 'run UUT' either. I can read / checksum ROM ok, test RAM - all works as expected. I can even copy a program into RAM and run uut at that address and it works, but it will not run the code from ROM. The PCB works fine with a 68000 in the slot (even using the one from within the fluke pod!) Other gaelco PCB's work fine, another copy of the same game works fine with run UUT so, no idea why, but it does seem to happen. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment
participants (8)
-
backflipper -
Corey Stup -
CRC -
John Robertson -
mail＠nessandsteve.plus.com -
martin＠guddler.co.uk -
Matt Rossiter -
Mike Coates