hi all... again. Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if anyone else has come across this before. Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting 'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far: It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants a full list of error codes, let me know... So, someone suggested formatting the hard disk, booting from floppies, and copying them over again... so i duly booted from the service disk, and formatted the drive, choosing option 5 - no dma. two options, 4 dma, 5 no dma... wasn't sure what to pick and couldn't find any info in the manuals about this. picked 5, and formatted. After doing a physical format / verification, results were : 74 bad (sectors) - 19.13mb available. I booted the v6.0 floppies and went to copy DR1 to HDR, and immediately got a write error.... So i got bored and I upgraded the roms in my machine (from 27256 V3.0 to 27c512 V5.0) thinking it might help, can't make the problem worse i thought :) I then retried the process again and it still failed.. So i checked if this was a system disk copying problem, or a general hard disk writing problem, i went into 'setup | save system settings in userdisk' and got the very same write error, indicating it must be a global hdisk writing error, not a problem with just the disk copying section. So then i booted to the service disk, and formatted the hard disk once again, but this time took option 4 - dma... same as above, booted in from floppies and i still get the write error. I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with this write error all the time now.. i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error.. I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first write it is failing on each time.. Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or the controller, or the software mis reporting it? any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis. ta, Andy. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Please send me the error code list and I will post it on my site Art ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy" <warlords@punkass.com> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: [Techtoolslist] Fluke 9100 hard disk write errors
hi all... again.
Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if anyone else has come across this before.
Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting 'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far:
It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants a full list of error codes, let me know...
So, someone suggested formatting the hard disk, booting from floppies, and copying them over again... so i duly booted from the service disk, and formatted the drive, choosing option 5 - no dma. two options, 4 dma, 5 no dma... wasn't sure what to pick and couldn't find any info in the manuals about this. picked 5, and formatted. After doing a physical format / verification, results were : 74 bad (sectors) - 19.13mb available. I booted the v6.0 floppies and went to copy DR1 to HDR, and immediately got a write error....
So i got bored and I upgraded the roms in my machine (from 27256 V3.0 to 27c512 V5.0) thinking it might help, can't make the problem worse i thought :)
I then retried the process again and it still failed.. So i checked if this was a system disk copying problem, or a general hard disk writing problem, i went into 'setup | save system settings in userdisk' and got the very same write error, indicating it must be a global hdisk writing error, not a problem with just the disk copying section.
So then i booted to the service disk, and formatted the hard disk once again, but this time took option 4 - dma... same as above, booted in from floppies and i still get the write error.
I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with this write error all the time now..
i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error..
I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first write it is failing on each time..
Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
ta,
Andy.
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At 2:30 PM +0000 12/30/06, andy wrote:
hi all... again.
Well, i've hit another brick wall in my 9100 upgrade and was wondering if anyone else has come across this before.
Basically, the 9100 is refusing to write to the hard disk... i'm getting 'write error' every time i try either to copy DR1 to HDR, or even saving a calibration/settings file to HDR... the story so far:
It all went wrong when i booted my 9100 from system 6.0 floppies, and copied all three system disks DR1 to HDR... when rebooted, the 9100 failed to load, throwing up a mixture of Error loading OS F7, or OS F4, and then proceeding with ERROR 244 or ERROR 205 and prompting to continue through a mire of root software errors. end result, the machine hung after the last error 'application exited abnormally internal error 102' - if anyone wants a full list of error codes, let me know... ... I have the western digital interface and the miniscribe 8254 drive, cannon floppy, and 2mb ram, i have set the config options correctly from the service disk utility, and tried numerous times copying to hard disk, with this write error all the time now..
i even made up a set of old 4.1(b) system disks (this was what my system had on it before) and tried the same things, and still this write error..
I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first write it is failing on each time..
Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
ta,
Andy.
Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL cover this as I recall... September to December 2002. John :-#)# _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL cover this as I recall... September to December 2002.
John :-#)#
___
Best TTL archives are at http://www.vectorlist.org - you can search them! John :-#)# _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
ta,
Andy.
Have you looked into upgrading to a SCSI drive? The archives of TTL cover this as I recall... September to December 2002.
John :-#)#
well i havn't looked into a scsi disk upgrade until i hit this brick wall, because there was no need to... but now of course, i am already on the hunt for a suitable drive. But like with old videogames, i'd like to give the original parts a decent chance at being fixed before going down the scsi route.. you know how it is, its all sitting on my bench right now and if i just put some effort in, i might beable to fix it... whereas the scsi route means finding a disk, getting a controller, getting it al to work on one of my pc's etc.... And like an old videogame i would (for now) like to try fixing the original hardware before sticking a 39-in-1 in there :P Andy _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
I turned on the disk error reporting from the service disk, and when i get the write error now, it shows the address as 00000001 so its the very first write it is failing on each time..
Bearing in mind the drive still appears to format ok, and that i had no previous problems with it, do you think this write error is the drive, or the controller, or the software mis reporting it?
Not a good sign. Bad drive or SCSI->MFM adaptor. The error reporting being turned on is key, the format utility itself ignores most other errors except a bad sector 0.
any help appreciated, or i'm going to be reduced to manually loading the system software from floppy disks everytime i want to use the damn thing, which will be a real pain as i do use the 9100 almost on a daily basis.
Those Miniscribe drives are lucky they spin up at all anymore. Most likely its the drive. I have a pile of bad MFM drives from 9100's - the Seagates all suffer from stiction, the Miniscribes media starts failing (or the platter motor can't maintain accurate speed anymore)... SInce you've already upgraded to the version 5.0 ROMs, get a used SCSI drive off eBay and replace it. Plugs right into the SCSI controller you already have, just remove the SCSI->MFM adaptor mounted on the drive cage. Much simpler design and one fewer point of failure. Note that if you plan on using the Editor (with a keyboard/monitor) you'll need to stick below somewhere around a 400MB drive. Theres a rollover bug where the free-space calculation is not accurate with larger disks. I believe the largest drive I have in any of my 9100's from Fluke is 320MB. I usually try and get one of the 1/2" height Quantums (like a LPS series), eBay usually has a selection of cheap pulls from old Macs. I do have a good used Miniscribe or two if anyone needs an "original" setup. No warranty of course, but its not DOA. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Not a good sign. Bad drive or SCSI->MFM adaptor. The error reporting being turned on is key, the format utility itself ignores most other errors except a bad sector 0.
okey doke.
Those Miniscribe drives are lucky they spin up at all anymore. Most likely its the drive. I have a pile of bad MFM drives from 9100's - the Seagates all suffer from stiction, the Miniscribes media starts failing (or the platter motor can't maintain accurate speed anymore)...
I believe my 9100 was NOS when i got it in 1998? i used it on an almost daily basis from 2000 to 2005 i would say, then it went into storage for a year, when i got it out of storage, the hard disk wouldn't spin up, after moving the rotator arm i got it going again and its been fine up until now (so its done a few months work now) and then i fudged it up by doing the system upgrade heh. All in all, i've defo had my moneys worth, and can't really fault the drive :)
SInce you've already upgraded to the version 5.0 ROMs, get a used SCSI drive off eBay and replace it. Plugs right into the SCSI controller you already have, just remove the SCSI->MFM adaptor mounted on the drive cage. Much simpler design and one fewer point of failure.
So i decided to do just this, looked on ebay, only thing i thought of that i would find a small scsi drive in was an old mac... sure enough i won a mac SE on ebay and went to go get it from south london on the train heh. I thought it might have a 40 or an 80 meg drive, sadly it has the stock components, 1mb ram (256k simms) and a 20meg scsi hard drive... and when i booted it up, it sounds suspiciously like the fluke......
Note that if you plan on using the Editor (with a keyboard/monitor) you'll need to stick below somewhere around a 400MB drive. Theres a rollover bug where the free-space calculation is not accurate with larger disks. I believe the largest drive I have in any of my 9100's from Fluke is 320MB. I usually try and get one of the 1/2" height Quantums (like a LPS series), eBay usually has a selection of cheap pulls from old Macs.
so, on cracking open the mac, what should lay before me, but a Miniscribe 8425S hahaha the scsi version of the mfm that died... still, it works, and i'm willing to give it a go... pulled from a fully working mac remember... but the problem now is that i can't seem to format it from the service disk, which format option should be used to format it? old setup was western digital/miniscribe 8425... options are : - western digital / miniscribe 8425 - western digital / tandon tm362 - adaptec 4000 / miniscribe 8425 - adaptec 5000 / miniscribe 8425 - rodime 6052 with disconnect - rodime 6052 without disconnect - rodime ro3057s after choosing to format under any of these configs, I get a further option of formatting with dma or without dma, which option should be selected? i've tried a few combos and everything so far is giving me errors one way or the other.. i would assume that adaptec 8425 would be about right, but nothing works so far.. unfortunately none of the errors stay on the display long enough for me to read them/write them down, stupid software. anyone have an idea of which is the right combo to try? cos if that doesn't work then maybe something else is up? also, might i be missing something on the scsi ID setting, would this cause these sorts of problems? it came from the mac, so would assume id:0 .. is this what the old mfm controller tells the scsi interface that its plugged into? or is it another id? thanks in advance Andy _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
So i decided to do just this, looked on ebay, only thing i thought of that i would find a small scsi drive in was an old mac... sure enough i won a mac SE on ebay and went to go get it from south london on the train heh. I thought it might have a 40 or an 80 meg drive, sadly it has the stock components, 1mb ram (256k simms) and a 20meg scsi hard drive... and when i booted it up, it sounds suspiciously like the fluke......
I usually just buy bare drives themselves on eBay, but i guess you got a "free" SE out of the deal!
but the problem now is that i can't seem to format it from the service disk, which format option should be used to format it? old setup was western digital/miniscribe 8425... options are : - western digital / miniscribe 8425 - western digital / tandon tm362 - adaptec 4000 / miniscribe 8425 - adaptec 5000 / miniscribe 8425 - rodime 6052 with disconnect - rodime 6052 without disconnect - rodime ro3057s
after choosing to format under any of these configs, I get a further option of formatting with dma or without dma, which option should be selected?
You need to use the V1.4 service disk, which has the "scsi format" options. You'll set it to a generic SCSI drive (either 256 or 512 byte sectors), instead of all those specific options. The setup/format utility disk you're using doesn't have the correct options for formatting a generic SCSI disk.
also, might i be missing something on the scsi ID setting, would this cause these sorts of problems? it came from the mac, so would assume id:0 .. is this what the old mfm controller tells the scsi interface that its plugged into? or is it another id?
HD0 maps to device 0 with the standard device descriptors that Fluke provided, and yes, thats what the MFM adaptor maps to. The tape backup would run device 1 if you installed that externally. _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
I usually just buy bare drives themselves on eBay, but i guess you got a "free" SE out of the deal!
heh yeh, total lack of small scsi drives on ebay at the moment it seems, all are 1gig+
You need to use the V1.4 service disk, which has the "scsi format" options. You'll set it to a generic SCSI drive (either 256 or 512 byte sectors), instead of all those specific options. The setup/format utility disk you're using doesn't have the correct options for formatting a generic SCSI disk.
ok, that makes sense... now the problem is that i have tried the service disk from flippers ftp that i think is marked 09/02 CSS only... that is the one that had the afformentioned options (none for scsi) so i found the v6 service disk (well, it was in the v6 rar) and tried to boot on that, the 9100 says something like 'the disk does not match your board' so i can only assume that this is a serial number issue (godamn you fluke). so that disk is out of bounds.. i've searched through every other rar in the flippers ftp for the 1.4 service disk and cannot find it... if you have the 1.4 service disk corey, could you dump it through teledisk and send it to me (and flippers i guess) ? i'm hoping it doesn't have the serial number issue like the v6 disk i just tried, do you have the original corey? i wonder if its matched to your system... i tried the hdr-flop.td0 in case it might have a utility on it, but it doesn't boot the 9100 like the system or the service disks... This is turning into a bit of an epic, but if i am successful then i'll do a write-up on how to do it, save other people a lot of time and effort :) Andy _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
I thought I'd pass this along since I don't think it's been discussed before. Maybe everyone but me already knew this. Hopefully it formats properly for the TTL - sorry if the text wrapping is horrendous. I recently had three Miniscribe 8425 drives that wouldn't format. I'd get different errors (write errors, usually, but sometimes "drive not ready" errors) depending on which version of the service disk I used (V1.2 versus V1.4), and which OS software I had installed (V3.0 versus V5.0). It seems that the drive activity LED isn't usually populated on the MS8425 (the socket is there, but only one of my drives had the rectangular LED installed), so I went ahead and populated all three. Hmmm, the LED flash pattern is the same on all three drives. Hmmm, the LED flashes that pattern even when everything except the power to the drive is disconnected (even the WD1002S-SHD board). Aha! Some sort of drive self-test is failing on all three drives, and it's not got anything to do with the 9100 after all! There's not much info available out there about the MS8425, BUT there is a little more available for the MS8438 (which is essentially the same drive), including a spec sheet showing a list of LED flash patterns with corresponding error descriptions. Turns out my LED pattern corresponds to "seek error during burn-in or recal". Hmm, OK - must be a problem with the head position sensor. It's a thru-beam flag sensor, so I dust mine off and reseat the connector, only to get the same result. Despite the warning label on the drives admonishing me "do not rotate interrupter", I power things down and rotate interrupter. Power back up and BINGO! No error. Hmm. Power down again. Power up. Still no error. Repeat for the other drives, same result. It seems that the MS8425 is not smart enough to find it's own home position. That's really, really poor design. I found that the "magical" position seems to be with the flag blocking 50% of the thru-beam sensor. I have no idea how my three drives all got moved away from the home position initially, but it sure seems that's what happened. I was finally able to format the drives. Well, sort of. Two of them have "bad system sectors and cannot be used", and the third has 1300+ bad sectors. Folks really weren't kidding when they said the MS8425 was junk. Two small SCSI disks are on order, so I'm sure all my problems are now solved :-) Alex ---- ayeckley@elektronforge.com www.elektronforge.com _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
At 10:24 AM -0500 1/15/07, Alex Yeckley wrote:
... corresponding error descriptions. Turns out my LED pattern corresponds to "seek error during burn-in or recal". Hmm, OK - must be a problem with the head position sensor. It's a thru-beam flag sensor, so I dust mine off and reseat the connector, only to get the same result. Despite the warning label on the drives admonishing me "do not rotate interrupter", I power things down and rotate interrupter. Power back up and BINGO! No error. Hmm. Power down again. Power up. Still no error. Repeat for the other drives, same result.
If you rotate the interrupter while the drive is SPINNING it should be safe as the heads are then floating on an air cushion...with the drive powered down you would probably scratch the surface sooner or later. John :-#)# _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
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participants (6)
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Alex Yeckley -
andy -
Art Mallet - Artfromny -
Corey Stup -
Jeff Shirley -
John Robertson