You lost me here... put game ROMS into the 1241??? On Apr 11, 2005 2:44 PM, Matthew Rossiter <matt@verio.net> wrote:
Here is some training material on the older tektronix logic analyzers. Cool 80's videos. :)
http://games.rossiters.com/test-equipment/
I think most gamers have been getting the Tektronix 1241 model. Probably because they're not that expensive and if you ask
around it's not that difficult to get the roms for the mnemonics rom packs. I believe you just need to find any rom pack and
just swap the desired (6502, z80, etc) 27128 roms into them. It's also easy to find the manuals for this model. I have another
training manual that I need to scan in and put online.
Matt
________________________________
From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of pc2jamma Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:54 AM To: Techtoolslist Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
Hello guys !
I'm wondering to buy one Logic Analyzer... but I'd never use one before, and I don't know somebody that can help me on choose one or even to tell me how to turn it on ;) - but I have one idea about it's functionality.
I have some experience on Scope - I learned by my self how to operate one...
My question is... what I have to see or check before buy one ? Do you guys have some model to recommend ? I've check on Ebay, and they have dozens of them, with starting price as low as $ 100.
I'm planning to use it on help me to fix my arcade boards... Is it useful for that ?
Thank you very much, and my apologize for too many questions...
José Luiz Martins _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
No, not game roms. If you're trying to do some kind of code debug, it helps to have the mnemonics rom pack for the processor the game uses. So, if you want to look at what code is being executed on an Asteroids board, you'd need a 6502 mnemonics rom pack. It's basically a plastic cartridge similar to an Atari 800. Unfortunately they're pretty hard to come by. I found a 68000 rom pack on ebay and I believe I can pull the roms out and put burn some 6502 menmonics roms if I need to. I haven't used my logic analyzer yet, mainly because it's used more useful in troubleshooting code than troubleshotting hardware. I just prefer to use my o-scope and signature analyzer. Maybe someone with more knowledge and experience here can add something about logic analyzers. Matt
-----Original Message----- From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist- bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Adam Courchesne Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:53 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
You lost me here... put game ROMS into the 1241???
On Apr 11, 2005 2:44 PM, Matthew Rossiter <matt@verio.net> wrote:
Here is some training material on the older tektronix logic analyzers.
Cool
80's videos. :)
http://games.rossiters.com/test-equipment/
I think most gamers have been getting the Tektronix 1241 model. Probably because they're not that expensive and if you ask
around it's not that difficult to get the roms for the mnemonics rom packs. I believe you just need to find any rom pack and
just swap the desired (6502, z80, etc) 27128 roms into them. It's also easy to find the manuals for this model. I have another
training manual that I need to scan in and put online.
Matt
________________________________
From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of pc2jamma Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:54 AM To: Techtoolslist Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
Hello guys !
I'm wondering to buy one Logic Analyzer... but I'd never use one before, and I don't know somebody that can help me on choose one or even to tell me how to turn it on ;) - but I have one idea about it's functionality.
I have some experience on Scope - I learned by my self how to operate one...
My question is... what I have to see or check before buy one ? Do you guys have some model to recommend ? I've check on Ebay, and they have dozens of them, with starting price as low as $ 100.
I'm planning to use it on help me to fix my arcade boards... Is it useful for that ?
Thank you very much, and my apologize for too many questions...
José Luiz Martins _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Well from my experience (7+ years doing digital ASIC development for IBM) logic analyzers are very helpful for overall system debug. (I.E. looking at microprocessor or peripheral transactoins, etc) For arcade game repair, you would have to understand the architecture of the game board in question to take full advantage of the analyzer. Now that's not to say the analyzer can't help you.... I've used to trigger certain read and writes to memory address that i suspected were bad, look for erratic behavior around an IC, etc. But I would aggree that for most debugs that I've done, I've used an o-scope and my Fluke. Fluke tells me what type of problem the system (arcade pcb) is seeing, and I use my logic probe and/or scope with the schematic to find the root cause. -Adam On Apr 12, 2005 2:14 PM, Matthew Rossiter <matt@verio.net> wrote:
No, not game roms. If you're trying to do some kind of code debug, it helps to have the mnemonics rom pack for the processor the game uses. So, if you want to look at what code is being executed on an Asteroids board, you'd need a 6502 mnemonics rom pack. It's basically a plastic cartridge similar to an Atari 800. Unfortunately they're pretty hard to come by. I found a 68000 rom pack on ebay and I believe I can pull the roms out and put burn some 6502 menmonics roms if I need to. I haven't used my logic analyzer yet, mainly because it's used more useful in troubleshooting code than troubleshotting hardware. I just prefer to use my o-scope and signature analyzer.
Maybe someone with more knowledge and experience here can add something about logic analyzers.
Matt
-----Original Message----- From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist- bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Adam Courchesne Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:53 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
You lost me here... put game ROMS into the 1241???
On Apr 11, 2005 2:44 PM, Matthew Rossiter <matt@verio.net> wrote:
Here is some training material on the older tektronix logic analyzers.
Cool
80's videos. :)
http://games.rossiters.com/test-equipment/
I think most gamers have been getting the Tektronix 1241 model. Probably because they're not that expensive and if you ask
around it's not that difficult to get the roms for the mnemonics rom packs. I believe you just need to find any rom pack and
just swap the desired (6502, z80, etc) 27128 roms into them. It's also easy to find the manuals for this model. I have another
training manual that I need to scan in and put online.
Matt
________________________________
From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of pc2jamma Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:54 AM To: Techtoolslist Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
Hello guys !
I'm wondering to buy one Logic Analyzer... but I'd never use one before, and I don't know somebody that can help me on choose one or even to tell me how to turn it on ;) - but I have one idea about it's functionality.
I have some experience on Scope - I learned by my self how to operate one...
My question is... what I have to see or check before buy one ? Do you guys have some model to recommend ? I've check on Ebay, and they have dozens of them, with starting price as low as $ 100.
I'm planning to use it on help me to fix my arcade boards... Is it useful for that ?
Thank you very much, and my apologize for too many questions...
José Luiz Martins _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Maybe someone with more knowledge and experience here can add something about logic analyzers.
Very useful for troubleshooting DVGs and AVGs on vector games (probably true for state machines in general). Problem is, you really have to have a pretty good grip on how the state machine is *supposed* to work. If you've done all the necessary up-front work (understanding the circuit, establishing a known set of starting conditions, etc.) you can watch the various opcodes get executed in real-time and get a pretty good idea of what might be wrong. A logic analyzer isn't the optimum tool for most troubleshooting situations where you'd expect something like an output drive transistor failure inside an IC - a scope is more appropriate for that. We very rarely break out a logic analyzer except for vector work. FWIW, we use the HP family of analyzers, rather than the Tektronix models that have been mentioned so far. Oh - that reminds me - it seems like someone earlier was confusing a logic *probe* with a logic *analyzer*. Just in case everybody doesn't know, they are two completely different animals... Alex ---- ayeckley@elektronforge.com www.elektronforge.com _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Seems a good point to mention I still could do with a manual for my rhode and shwartz LAC64 logic analyser if anyone knows the whereabouts of one. and I got it to assist in reverse engineering custom chips - for repairs, it's fluke and logic probe 99% of the time. I even got a signature analyser, but never bother with it - anything it does seems to be easier using the fluke _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
Easier to search with the name right---it's Rohde & Schwarz. Finally found their US site at http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ . Some of their equipment is repaired by Tektronix. No mention of the LAC64, though. Is LAC64 correct or is there a dash or space in their somewhere? Mike Coates wrote:
Seems a good point to mention I still could do with a manual for my rhode and shwartz LAC64 logic analyser if anyone knows the whereabouts of one.
and I got it to assist in reverse engineering custom chips - for repairs, it's fluke and logic probe 99% of the time.
I even got a signature analyser, but never bother with it - anything it does seems to be easier using the fluke _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
No, not game ROMS. The 1241 can show what looks like assembly code if you plug in a disassembly pack for the processor being used. The ROMs he was talking about are for the disassembly pack. Adam Courchesne wrote:
You lost me here... put game ROMS into the 1241???
On Apr 11, 2005 2:44 PM, Matthew Rossiter <matt@verio.net> wrote:
Here is some training material on the older tektronix logic analyzers. Cool 80's videos. :)
http://games.rossiters.com/test-equipment/
I think most gamers have been getting the Tektronix 1241 model. Probably because they're not that expensive and if you ask
around it's not that difficult to get the roms for the mnemonics rom packs. I believe you just need to find any rom pack and
just swap the desired (6502, z80, etc) 27128 roms into them. It's also easy to find the manuals for this model. I have another
training manual that I need to scan in and put online.
Matt
________________________________
From: techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of pc2jamma Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:54 AM To: Techtoolslist Subject: [Techtoolslist] Logic Analyser adevice needed
Hello guys !
I'm wondering to buy one Logic Analyzer... but I'd never use one before, and I don't know somebody that can help me on choose one or even to tell me how to turn it on ;) - but I have one idea about it's functionality.
I have some experience on Scope - I learned by my self how to operate one...
My question is... what I have to see or check before buy one ? Do you guys have some model to recommend ? I've check on Ebay, and they have dozens of them, with starting price as low as $ 100.
I'm planning to use it on help me to fix my arcade boards... Is it useful for that ?
Thank you very much, and my apologize for too many questions...
José Luiz Martins _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
participants (6)
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Adam Courchesne -
Alex Yeckley -
Matthew Rossiter -
Mike Coates -
pc2jamma -
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