Interesting observation, question
I have noticed on these Zoo keeper/Qix boards (BTW, the second level of Dante's hell) and I've run into now three boards that have had their 12V line shorted to ground. In all cases, it's been due to the tant capacitors. I've got some new ones in stock, yet in one case merely having that cap installed (new cap) will cause the short. That's the general observation. The question part comes down to this: is this pretty common for tant capacitors in general? Do they tend to fail short? Since they're used only to cut down on noise in this application (4116 chips), I can run the board just fine without them. Although if there were designed to run with them installed, I'd like to have them installed. Just curious. I've updated my notes to read "check tant capacitors on 12V short" ... :) --James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:45:28 -0400, "James S. Bright" <james@quarterarcade.com> wrote:
I have noticed on these Zoo keeper/Qix boards (BTW, the second level of Dante's hell) and I've run into now three boards that have had their 12V line shorted to ground. In all cases, it's been due to the tant capacitors. I've got some new ones in stock, yet in one case merely having that cap installed (new cap) will cause the short. That's the general observation.
The question part comes down to this: is this pretty common for tant capacitors in general? Do they tend to fail short?
Absolutely. It's the number one reason Cinematronics monitors fail -- shorted tant caps. I think they only need nano-seconds of reverse voltage to short. They're very temperamental and I swear these things will short out if they've already seen the Seinfeld episode playing, and you don't turn the channel.
Since they're used only to cut down on noise in this application (4116 chips), I can run the board just fine without them. Although if there were designed to run with them installed, I'd like to have them installed.
Replace them with electrolytic caps. You'll have to increase the capacitance, to get the same noise reduction, since tants have better H.F. response at lower capacitance. My rule of thumb is to double the value. For instance, replace 4.7uf tants with 10uf elects. -Zonn
Replace them with electrolytic caps. You'll have to increase the capacitance, to get the same noise reduction, since tants have better H.F. response at lower capacitance. My rule of thumb is to double the value. For instance, replace 4.7uf tants with 10uf elects.
-Zonn
Ah! Very good tip. Thanks. And I've also seen them catch on fire... On more than one occasion! JB --James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
Common cause of failures on the Taito Space Invaders three board sets is Tants... John :-#)# At 06:21 PM 12/07/2003 -0400, James S. Bright wrote:
Replace them with electrolytic caps. You'll have to increase the capacitance, to get the same noise reduction, since tants have better H.F. response at lower capacitance. My rule of thumb is to double the value. For instance, replace 4.7uf tants with 10uf elects.
-Zonn
Ah! Very good tip. Thanks.
And I've also seen them catch on fire... On more than one occasion!
JB
--James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
BTW, I've uploaded the latest version of FIDE. John, it *shouldn't* crash on you, although I couldn't reproduce your problem. It should give you an error message and then allow you to continue. You can just download the EXE (see the install page). Email me if you need the download page again. In this version, you can insert assembled files (listings) and FIDE will write the appropriate 9lc script. It makes some assumptions about your listing so if you try this feature and it doesn't work for you, just let me know. It worked for me for MAME listing (DASM exports) and for a 6809 assembler I'm using. I'm writing an "Intro to Programming" article that I should have up later this weekend. I'll also put up at least one more code sample for people starting to use scripts more. JB --James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
-----Original Message----- From: owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 6:54 PM To: TechToolsList@flippers.com Subject: RE: Interesting observation, question
Common cause of failures on the Taito Space Invaders three board sets is Tants...
John :-#)#
At 06:21 PM 12/07/2003 -0400, James S. Bright wrote:
Replace them with electrolytic caps. You'll have to increase the capacitance, to get the same noise reduction, since tants have better H.F. response at lower capacitance. My rule of thumb is to double the value. For instance, replace 4.7uf tants with 10uf elects.
-Zonn
Ah! Very good tip. Thanks.
And I've also seen them catch on fire... On more than one occasion!
JB
--James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
I don't know if this is off-topic, and James might want me to him post direct (let me know)... Regarding the FIDE software, is it supposed to hook into the RKSIC software yet? When I run mine (Win2k) I only get the Receive from Serial Port toolbar button available, the Send and Set Port Settings buttons are greyed out. Perhaps this is for a later release? BTW, you spelt Receive wrongly :-) Maybe my grey buttons are is linked to an installation problem on my box where the Program Menu shortcut doesn't work - I have to manually find the executable and run it directly. Perhaps I should re-install? As for program enhancements, you simply *must* add syntax highlighting!! I use TextPad 4.6.2 at the moment, and have knocked up a syntax highlighting config file for Fluke source files. Using the FIDE editor seems like a step backwards (sorry). This version of TextPad has a useful facility for saving syntax highlighting in HTML, as shown here: www.phillipeaton.com/../flukesyntaxhighlight.htm. So far, though, FIDE is looking great! A more comprehensive library of source examples would be good as learning by seeing would save me having to read the manual... Perhaps everyone who has 'packaged' PCB test routines could contribute them? I will when I've written some - I'm pretty new to using the Fluke so far. What do you think? Cheers, Phillip Eaton
-----Original Message----- From: owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com]On Behalf Of James S. Bright Sent: 13 July 2003 00:07 To: TechToolsList@flippers.com Subject: RE: Interesting observation, question
BTW, I've uploaded the latest version of FIDE. John, it *shouldn't* crash on you, although I couldn't reproduce your problem. It should give you an error message and then allow you to continue. You can just download the EXE (see the install page). Email me if you need the download page again.
In this version, you can insert assembled files (listings) and FIDE will write the appropriate 9lc script. It makes some assumptions about your listing so if you try this feature and it doesn't work for you, just let me know. It worked for me for MAME listing (DASM exports) and for a 6809 assembler I'm using.
I'm writing an "Intro to Programming" article that I should have up later this weekend. I'll also put up at least one more code sample for people starting to use scripts more.
JB
--James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
-----Original Message----- From: owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com [mailto:owner-techtoolslist@www.flippers.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 6:54 PM To: TechToolsList@flippers.com Subject: RE: Interesting observation, question
Common cause of failures on the Taito Space Invaders three board sets is Tants...
John :-#)#
At 06:21 PM 12/07/2003 -0400, James S. Bright wrote:
Replace them with electrolytic caps. You'll have to increase the capacitance, to get the same noise reduction, since tants have better H.F. response at lower capacitance. My rule of thumb is to double the value. For instance, replace 4.7uf tants with 10uf elects.
-Zonn
Ah! Very good tip. Thanks.
And I've also seen them catch on fire... On more than one occasion!
JB
--James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
Comments below.
I don't know if this is off-topic, and James might want me to him post direct (let me know)...
Regarding the FIDE software, is it supposed to hook into the RKSIC software yet?
Yes, it's fully functional (or should be).
When I run mine (Win2k) I only get the Receive from Serial Port toolbar button available, the Send and Set Port Settings buttons are greyed out. Perhaps this is for a later release? BTW, you spelt Receive wrongly :-)
The set port settings are disabled? That's a mistake. I'll see if I can reproduce that problem. They should not be disabled. But if you can't set the port settings, the send/receive won't work.
Maybe my grey buttons are is linked to an installation problem on my box where the Program Menu shortcut doesn't work - I have to manually find the executable and run it directly. Perhaps I should re-install?
Hmm. Does sound like something went wrong with installation. You may want to try re-installing it with the latest version and let me know if you have the same problems. (Writing installation code sucks, btw.) My concern would be that if your Program Menu shortcut isn't working (that puzzles me because the setup takes care of that step), then I'm not sure the compiler would work for you either. Were you able to compile scripts?
As for program enhancements, you simply *must* add syntax highlighting!!
I use TextPad 4.6.2 at the moment, and have knocked up a syntax highlighting config file for Fluke source files. Using the FIDE editor seems like a step backwards (sorry). This version of TextPad has a useful facility for saving syntax highlighting in HTML, as shown here: www.phillipeaton.com/../flukesyntaxhighlight.htm.
Is the an OCX that you can use so that I can put it in the program? Actually I was trying to find a control that would provide syntax highlighting. I wasn't going to re-write the control myself. I'll take a look at your link and poke around a little more. There is integrated help though.
So far, though, FIDE is looking great! A more comprehensive library of source examples would be good as learning by seeing would save me having to read the manual... Perhaps everyone who has 'packaged' PCB test routines could contribute them? I will when I've written some - I'm pretty new to using the Fluke so far.
What do you think?
Good feedback. Thanks. JB --James Bright www.QuarterArcade.com Restored Arcade Games for your Home
As for program enhancements, you simply *must* add syntax highlighting!!
I use TextPad 4.6.2 at the moment, and have knocked up a
$500... Pass. I'll see exactly how hard it is just to use the RichTextBox control and manually do highlighting. 9lC is pretty simple. You just want to color code comments (green), keywords (blue), maybe include files dark grey or something, but everything else black. (Maybe key on REG statements.) In theory this should be a half-day project. I'll take a look. I too wanted syntax highlighting. Would also make it easier on the newbie. JB
participants (4)
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James S. Bright -
John Robertson -
Phillip Eaton -
Zonn