Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives... I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result.... What I did: 1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this. After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes. Conclusions: 1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI! Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!! Jess -----Original Message----- Heya Folks... I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks. They are either ST 27128A Fujitsu 27128 SEEQ 27128 TI TMS27C128 Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it. On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away. Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away. Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing. Thanks Jess _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com<mailto:Techtoolslist@flippers.com> https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them. I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer. Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
_______________________________________________
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FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment
Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
The POST time is just barely longer, I sorta worried the same thing, but it actually helps me a little because my 29B goes directly into remote mode, if I don't start PROMLINK within 30 seconds of it finishing Self Test, it times out. So I used to have to hurry and get DOSBOX running and make sure I was ready to run pl.exe right after Self Test... now, I have time to Turn on the 29B, Start DosBox, change to my PROMLINK drive P: (mapped with MOUNT in DosBox config) and type pl<enter> and the timing is perfect. 😊 Headline: 'Memory Upgrade Improves Workflow!!!!' You are right tho... the actuality that I will need more than 256K of storage is unlikely for what I do... I only have a Unipak 2 like you... so Im limited to 28-pin devices too. -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Ian Eure Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes... How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them. I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer. Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
_______________________________________________
Techtoolslist mailing list
Techtoolslist@flippers.com<mailto:Techtoolslist@flippers.com>
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment
Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2018/03/30 8:47 AM, Jess Askey wrote:
The POST time is just barely longer, I sorta worried the same thing, but it actually helps me a little because my 29B goes directly into remote mode, if I don't start PROMLINK within 30 seconds of it finishing Self Test, it times out. So I used to have to hurry and get DOSBOX running and make sure I was ready to run pl.exe right after Self Test... now, I have time to Turn on the 29B, Start DosBox, change to my PROMLINK drive P: (mapped with MOUNT in DosBox config) and type pl<enter> and the timing is perfect. 😊 Headline: 'Memory Upgrade Improves Workflow!!!!' Not to be annoying, but you do know that you can manually put the 29B into Remote Mode by simply pressing keys 'SELECT', 'F', '1' then press the 'START' key twice...
John ;-#)#
You are right tho... the actuality that I will need more than 256K of storage is unlikely for what I do... I only have a Unipak 2 like you... so Im limited to 28-pin devices too.
-----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Ian Eure Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them.
I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer.
Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
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I love my Data I/O 29B/Unipak2 /Logicpak - it's old, huge, noisy, and I have to use PROMLINK, BUT... It reliably programs everything it was designed to program including those old legacy bipolar proms from obscure suppliers. I have an extra set because I rely on it so much that I am so paranoid about having a backup in case my "#1" fails. For the newer, easier to program stuff, I have a $40 Chinese TL866 and it works great. Never had much luck with the willem or GQ style programmers, especially if I was programming several parts in succession. Who knew the same programmer that I used back in the 80's when I was a young FAE would be the same one I rely on 35 years later. That blows my mind. Oh, and I thank my higher power every day for DOSBOX. Best, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of John Robertson Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 7:22 PM To: techtoolslist@flippers.com Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes... On 2018/03/30 8:47 AM, Jess Askey wrote:
The POST time is just barely longer, I sorta worried the same thing, but it actually helps me a little because my 29B goes directly into remote mode, if I don't start PROMLINK within 30 seconds of it finishing Self Test, it times out. So I used to have to hurry and get DOSBOX running and make sure I was ready to run pl.exe right after Self Test... now, I have time to Turn on the 29B, Start DosBox, change to my PROMLINK drive P: (mapped with MOUNT in DosBox config) and type pl<enter> and the timing is perfect. 😊 Headline: 'Memory Upgrade Improves Workflow!!!!' Not to be annoying, but you do know that you can manually put the 29B into Remote Mode by simply pressing keys 'SELECT', 'F', '1' then press the 'START' key twice...
John ;-#)#
You are right tho... the actuality that I will need more than 256K of storage is unlikely for what I do... I only have a Unipak 2 like you... so Im limited to 28-pin devices too.
-----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Ian Eure Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them.
I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer.
Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
_______________________________________________
Techtoolslist mailing list
Techtoolslist@flippers.com<mailto:Techtoolslist@flippers.com>
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
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That's the thing... Mine goes directly into remote mode after startup, without doing the normal key sequence... Strange but true! Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> Date: 3/30/18 6:22 PM (GMT-07:00) To: techtoolslist@flippers.com Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes... On 2018/03/30 8:47 AM, Jess Askey wrote:
The POST time is just barely longer, I sorta worried the same thing, but it actually helps me a little because my 29B goes directly into remote mode, if I don't start PROMLINK within 30 seconds of it finishing Self Test, it times out. So I used to have to hurry and get DOSBOX running and make sure I was ready to run pl.exe right after Self Test... now, I have time to Turn on the 29B, Start DosBox, change to my PROMLINK drive P: (mapped with MOUNT in DosBox config) and type pl<enter> and the timing is perfect. 😊 Headline: 'Memory Upgrade Improves Workflow!!!!' Not to be annoying, but you do know that you can manually put the 29B into Remote Mode by simply pressing keys 'SELECT', 'F', '1' then press the 'START' key twice...
John ;-#)#
You are right tho... the actuality that I will need more than 256K of storage is unlikely for what I do... I only have a Unipak 2 like you... so Im limited to 28-pin devices too.
-----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Ian Eure Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them.
I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer.
Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
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FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment
Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
-- How to subscribe or unsubscribe from TTL http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
On 2018/03/30 7:28 PM, Jess Askey wrote:
That's the thing... Mine goes directly into remote mode after startup, without doing the normal key sequence... Strange but true!
Ah, then you have the REMOTE code in your base station. That is version 5 of the 29B ROM code I believe... /DATA-IO/29A_B/29B-Rev5-Remote mode.zip never tried it, my machine is on revision 11 if I am not mistaken. Can you get back to remote mode using the key sequence after it times out? John :-#)#
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> Date: 3/30/18 6:22 PM (GMT-07:00) To: techtoolslist@flippers.com Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
On 2018/03/30 8:47 AM, Jess Askey wrote:
The POST time is just barely longer, I sorta worried the same thing, but it actually helps me a little because my 29B goes directly into remote mode, if I don't start PROMLINK within 30 seconds of it finishing Self Test, it times out. So I used to have to hurry and get DOSBOX running and make sure I was ready to run pl.exe right after Self Test... now, I have time to Turn on the 29B, Start DosBox, change to my PROMLINK drive P: (mapped with MOUNT in DosBox config) and type pl<enter> and the timing is perfect. 😊 Headline: 'Memory Upgrade Improves Workflow!!!!' Not to be annoying, but you do know that you can manually put the 29B into Remote Mode by simply pressing keys 'SELECT', 'F', '1' then press the 'START' key twice...
John ;-#)#
You are right tho... the actuality that I will need more than 256K of storage is unlikely for what I do... I only have a Unipak 2 like you... so Im limited to 28-pin devices too.
-----Original Message----- From: Techtoolslist [mailto:techtoolslist-bounces@flippers.com] On Behalf Of Ian Eure Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:40 AM To: Technical Tools Mail List <techtoolslist@flippers.com> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] 29B EPROM Programming Woes...
How is the 29B with 1mb? I got all the parts to upgrade mine, but ended up deciding not to install them.
I’ve never been able to find the UniPak 2B adapters to handle larger devices, so I figured the RAM wouldn’t be doing me any good and would make the POST take much longer.
Jess Askey writes:
Okay, just a little followup on this for the archives...
I took this moment to do several things with my 29B and I have some improvements as a result....
What I did:
1. Replaced all the mainboard Tantalum Caps - these can be identified as they are 'blob' looking and are tannish yellow. I had to replace about 9 of them around the Power Supply and these ranged from 2.2uf to 220uf. Luckily since I re-cap monitors all the time, I had lots of equivalent 105 degree electrolytic caps in my parts to match these. 2. I guessed that the tiny square tannish-yellow 5v bypass capacitors on my mainboard were not Tantalum as they were very small and also pretty high voltage, I didn't think they could possibly be tantalum due to those properties. I might be wrong, but I left them alone (there were also like 10 of them) 3. I went through the Power Supply calibration measurements, it was challenging without an extender card/cable but I was still able to get my DMM probes in there to the test points. Everything in there was pretty good so I did not need to adjust anything. 4. I also took the time while I was in there to upgrade my 256K Expansion Memory board to 1M... I had a set of RAM and sockets that I had ordered years ago, and took the time to do it now * It was tedious and meticulous. The traces are super small but I wouldn't call them fragile by any means but if you aren't pretty good with a soldering iron, I can see how this could become disastrous. * Once you have everything out, inspect your PCB for damage you might have caused and clean it up with Flux cleaner etc... I used a magnifying glass because apparently now Im old and can't see small things anymore, Im not entirely sure when this happened. * The bypass capacitors that need to be moved... they really need to be moved!! I assumed that I could just leave them and throw in some other bypass caps in the new locations.. After booting I was getting a 'Parity Error #62'. However these are not normal bypass caps... they are actually 33uf for being so small. I had to remove all the ones I put in in the new locations and moved the old ones over, just like the instructions said (docs are on the TTL FTP site for this). Then no more parity errors... Whew... Instructions to the rescue! * Select B -2 - Start reported a solid 1M memory after this.
After all this, I again started programming a set of EPROM's, both 27128 varieties and 27256 varieties by different manufacturers from my 'old EPROM' bin. I was able to program the SEEQ, ST and TI EPROM's pretty decently, and the ones that failed were all the same old ones that had failed before, so Im concluding that those specific EPROM's might have issues (potentially related to the other programmer I was using)... Im going to stick to the 29B now since it actually has way better and 'specific' support for these part numbers and see how it goes.
Conclusions:
1. The capacitor upgrades needed to happen anyway because eventually the tantalum caps will have silver migration issues and start to create a DC load. Even tho my unit was built in 1985 and had all the newest designs, Im sure the caps were less than optimal after 30+ years of environmental stress. 2. I think I was in a 'statistical saddle' on my luck with the old EPROM's... I sorta put my mindset into 10% failure rate might be normal on using old devices. 3. Man TI27CXXX EPROMs program fast (TMS27C256 in 2 seconds) compared to others (sometimes 2+ minutes, the SEEQ's especially), they must have really spent some time getting their programming algorithm tweaked for them. NICE JOB TI!
Thanks to everyone for the tips, they were helpful to get my mind in the right place for all of this!!
Jess
-----Original Message-----
Heya Folks...
I have had a need to program a bunch of EPROMs lately (27128 varieties) and Im not sure if there are sunspots or something, but I can't seem to program anything on either my 29B OR my Intronics USB Programmer... I have successfully programmed like 4 EPROMs out of like 40 attempts. My EPROM's are old pulls from either Atari boards or other used ones I have acquired over the years in storage sticks.
They are either
ST 27128A
Fujitsu 27128
SEEQ 27128
TI TMS27C128
Im being fairly careful about the programming voltages and the 29B identifies the IC before programming it.
On the 29B I just get an Error #22 Programming Error right away.
Sorta the same thing on my Intronics.... Set it up, verify blank, program, error right away.
Are these just too old? Anyone have any good tricks? The strange part is that I was having this exact same issue last night, then all of a sudden my 29B programmed 3 in a row just fine... today, nothing.
Thanks
Jess
_______________________________________________
Techtoolslist mailing list
Techtoolslist@flippers.com<mailto:Techtoolslist@flippers.com>
https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment
Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/ -- How to subscribe or unsubscribe from TTL http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
_______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
-- How to subscribe or unsubscribe from TTL http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist _______________________________________________ Techtoolslist mailing list Techtoolslist@flippers.com https://pairlist7.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist FTP site is: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment Archive site: http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/techtoolslist/
participants (4)
-
Bill Karkula -
Ian Eure -
Jess Askey -
John Robertson